Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

PhilosophicalBluster · #1 19th February 2009, 10:15 PM

... And to me, it seems, very probable.

BEFORE YOU READ:

I realize that this theory / hypothesis / concept / whatever is not going to be the end-all creationism vs. atheism debate. This is just an idea I found interesting and wanted to see what everybody here thought about it.

ON TO THE SUBJECT:

I just had this sort of thought bouncing around in my head, and I think I had an epiphany. That or my brain exploded. Okay, consider this:

Before the universe existed, there were no laws. Of anything. No physics, no logic, no nothing.

If such a blank nothingness existed without laws, literally anything could happen.

In the infinite amount of time that the nothingness existed, it is infinitely probable for anything and everything to be created. Since there is an infinite amount of time and no binding guidelines, literally every possibility must be fulfilled.

This includes the spontaneous creation of our universe.

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Put that in your pipe and smoke it, creationists.

b&wpac4 · #2 19th February 2009, 10:23 PM

It is impossible to remove the possibility that God is behind everything. By the very nature of being something untestable, unseeable, unfalsifiable, God could exist and be behind the creation of everything, though whatever process God decided on.

I think that concept, however, that Genesis is a literal and factual account of the creation of the world really needs to go away because it doesn't add up.

PhilosophicalBluster · #3 19th February 2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by b&wpac4

It is impossible to remove the possibility that God is behind everything. By the very nature of being something untestable, unseeable, unfalsifiable, God could exist and be behind the creation of everything, though whatever process God decided on.

Correct, it does not rule out G-d, but it does present an argument against the annoying creationists (who shall not be named due to forum rules) who say "Yadda yadda atheism is just 0 * 0 = 1 Derp Derp Derp". It's an alternative theory.

b&wpac4 · #4 19th February 2009, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by PhilosophicalBluster

Correct, it does not rule out G-d, but it does present an argument against the annoying creationists (who shall not be named due to forum rules) who say "Yadda yadda atheism is just 0 * 0 = 1 Derp Derp Derp". It's an alternative theory.

The problem is, they continually have to retreat as more is found out, or outright deny the science is there. Sounds a lot like the dark ages when some people found it important to continue to insist that the Earth was the center of the universe.

PhilosophicalBluster · #5 19th February 2009, 10:48 PM

Man, I want this to get some hits from the fundies. Intellect stagnates without opposition.

(Translation: Bump)

HighwayMan · #6 19th February 2009, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by PhilosophicalBluster

... And to me, it seems, very probable.

BEFORE YOU READ:

I realize that this theory / hypothesis / concept / whatever is not going to be the end-all creationism vs. atheism debate. This is just an idea I found interesting and wanted to see what everybody here thought about it.

ON TO THE SUBJECT:

I just had this sort of thought bouncing around in my head, and I think I had an epiphany. That or my brain exploded. Okay, consider this:

Before the universe existed, there were no laws. Of anything. No physics, no logic, no nothing.

If such a blank nothingness existed without laws, literally [i]anything[/I] could happen.

In the infinite amount of time that the nothingness existed, it is infinitely probable for anything and everything to be created. Since there is an infinite amount of time and no binding guidelines, literally every possibility must be fulfilled.

This includes the spontaneous creation of our universe.

----------------------

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, creationists.

But then that means there was some sort of energy/influence that caused things to happen in this lawless state.

I'd argue that literally nothing could happen. If things were ever in a state of utter non-existence, then they would still be this way now. If there is one certain law about our universe it's that everything has some sort of source.

Chesterton · #7 19th February 2009, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by PhilosophicalBluster

I just had this sort of thought bouncing around in my head, and I think I had an epiphany. That or my brain exploded. Okay, consider this:
...

If such a blank nothingness existed without laws, literally anything could happen.

Definitely a brain explosion.

PhilosophicalBluster · #8 20th February 2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by HighwayMan

But then that means there was some sort of energy/influence that caused things to happen in this lawless state.

I'd argue that literally nothing could happen. If things were ever in a state of utter non-existence, then they would still be this way now. If there is one certain law about our universe it's that everything has some sort of source.

But see, my argument is that if there is nothingness, to the highest (or lowest, depending on how you look at it) degree of nothingness. Literally NOTHING. If there is no universe, there are no laws to govern it. Nothing requires energy to happen, because the law that makes that requirement possible is not in existence. I cannot fully explain how much NOTHING I actually mean by NOTHING.

There is, in fact, so much NOTHING that there are no laws to govern the NOTHING and thus, given an infinite amount of time, anything and everything because of probability, HAS to happen.

PhilosophicalBluster · #9 20th February 2009, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Chesterton

Definitely a brain explosion.

Then disprove it, oh brilliant philosopher.

Jade Margery · #10 20th February 2009, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by HighwayMan

But then that means there was some sort of energy/influence that caused things to happen in this lawless state.

I'd argue that literally nothing could happen. If things were ever in a state of utter non-existence, then they would still be this way now. If there is one certain law about our universe it's that everything has some sort of source.

Hmmm. Now, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the OP's premise, but I wonder about your last sentence. Why does everything need a source? Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. So if, say, there is a set amount of energy in the universe... or rather of the universe, because matter is merely organized energy... what if all there is, is all there ever was? No beginning, no end. We humans have trouble conceptualising something like that because of the terminal nature of our lives, but the universe doesn't exist on human terms.