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  #11  
Old 28th February 2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic View Post
As the title states what do we know about Christianity in the 12th century&amp?
The 1100s? From a theological angle, the century lay the foundation for Scholasticism. We have the major forerunners of Scholasticism - Anselm, archbishop of Canterbury, Peter Abelard, and Peter Lombard, as well as the introduction of the Aristotelian works on which it was based. These works of Aristotle came through contact with the Muslims in the Crusades and in Spain.

Anselm has been very influential in Western theology, even through today. Because of conflicts between church and state, Anselm was exiled much of the time by the English kings . During those times Anselm wrote Proslogion and Why God Human?. These books developed the ontological argument for the existence of God and the satisfaction theory of the atonement. And both of these concepts had a profound impact on Western theology to the present.

LDG
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  #12  
Old 28th February 2009, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LamorakDesGalis View Post
The 1100s? From a theological angle, the century lay the foundation for Scholasticism. We have the major forerunners of Scholasticism - Anselm, archbishop of Canterbury, Peter Abelard, and Peter Lombard, as well as the introduction of the Aristotelian works on which it was based. These works of Aristotle came through contact with the Muslims in the Crusades and in Spain.

Anselm has been very influential in Western theology, even through today. Because of conflicts between church and state, Anselm was exiled much of the time by the English kings . During those times Anselm wrote Proslogion and Why God Human?. These books developed the ontological argument for the existence of God and the satisfaction theory of the atonement. And both of these concepts had a profound impact on Western theology to the present.

LDG
Peter Lombard rings a bell but I really know nothing of these men.

Were they leaders, teachers or something else?

Did any of them contribute something to Christianity that stands out even today?
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  #13  
Old 28th February 2009, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Anoetos View Post
Which Christians? The Clergy? The Nobility? The peasantry?

They worked, they went to church, the vast majority could not read and even the ones who could were tremendously superstitious.
Everything or anything.

I want to read about anything that some one here has learned about this period of Christianity. I only ask that it pertain to Christianity.
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REVELATION 21: I (am) the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son. But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
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  #14  
Old 28th February 2009, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by E.C. View Post
Knights Templar was founded around 1119.

Second Lateran Council in 1139.

Second Crusade began.

The people of Constantinople rebelled and kicked out the Latin rulers from the city. Andronikos I Komnenos becomes the last of the Komnenoi to rule the Byzantine Empire.

Northern Crusades began where Roman Catholics start attacking pagan areas in the Baltic as well as forcing the Orthodox Christians in the area to become Roman Catholic.

Third Crusade began.


From "Bible and Church History" of "The Orthodox Faith" series by Fr. Thomas Hopko.

Anyone have pictures of Orthodox churches or art from this period with any descriptions?
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REVELATION 21: I (am) the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son. But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
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  #15  
Old 28th February 2009, 10:17 PM
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Latin is a funny language, writers of Latin would often omit verbs, the idea being that they were implied by the subject matter and context.

Thus the Cur Deus Homo of Anselm which Lamorak has properly translated "Why God Man" (literally) should probably be translated "Why the God-Man" or "Why did God become Man?" if some sense of the meaning is to be conveyed.

The text is his commentary on the incarnation and contains the first extended articulation of the idea of a vicarious substitutionary atonement in post-biblical literature.

Anyhow the second and third crusades took place in the 12the century both are generally accepted to have been failures.

Bernard of Clairvaux and Francis of Assisi lived during this period as well.

Also, I believe the Universities of Oxford and Paris were founded.
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  #16  
Old 1st March 2009, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Anoetos View Post
Latin is a funny language, writers of Latin would often omit verbs, the idea being that they were implied by the subject matter and context.

Thus the Cur Deus Homo of Anselm which Lamorak has properly translated "Why God Man" (literally) should probably be translated "Why the God-Man" or "Why did God become Man?" if some sense of the meaning is to be conveyed.

The text is his commentary on the incarnation and contains the first extended articulation of the idea of a vicarious substitutionary atonement in post-biblical literature.

Anyhow the second and third crusades took place in the 12the century both are generally accepted to have been failures.

Bernard of Clairvaux and Francis of Assisi lived during this period as well.

Also, I believe the Universities of Oxford and Paris were founded.
Francis of Assisi... now there is a hero of Christianity if ever there was one. I like his story alot and think the Franciscan order is one of the best. The priest at our 1:30 Liturgy on Sundays is a Franciscan. It is cool to see men that give up all wealth to serve the church. They are basically asking for payment from God or treasure in Heaven and denying this world. Just awesome.
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  #17  
Old 2nd March 2009, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anoetos View Post
Latin is a funny language, writers of Latin would often omit verbs, the idea being that they were implied by the subject matter and context.

Thus the Cur Deus Homo of Anselm which Lamorak has properly translated "Why God Man" (literally) should probably be translated "Why the God-Man" or "Why did God become Man?" if some sense of the meaning is to be conveyed.

The text is his commentary on the incarnation and contains the first extended articulation of the idea of a vicarious substitutionary atonement in post-biblical literature.


Originally Posted by Anoetos View Post
Anyhow the second and third crusades took place in the 12the century both are generally accepted to have been failures.

Bernard of Clairvaux and Francis of Assisi lived during this period as well.

Also, I believe the Universities of Oxford and Paris were founded.
And it was Bernard of Clairvaux who spearheaded the second crusade. The third crusade is also called the crusade of kings, because the leaders were (duh) kings: (Richard the Lionhearted, Philip II of France and Frederick I).


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  #18  
Old 2nd March 2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic View Post
Peter Lombard rings a bell but I really know nothing of these men.

Were they leaders, teachers or something else?

Did any of them contribute something to Christianity that stands out even today?
Anselm (1033-1109) was an archbishop at Canterbury. The major legacy for Anselm is the satisfaction view of the atonement. This supplanted the ransom view of the atonement which was popular since Origen's day.

Peter Abelard (1079-1142) was a theologian at the university of Paris and served as an abbot for a short time. Abelard compiled together contradictory statements from both Scripture and Church Fathers. His legacy was to compel his teachers/students to reconcile faith and reason. This was the foundation upon which scholastics built over the next few centuries.

Peter Lombard (1095-1169) was a bishop in Paris. Lombard compiled citations from both the Church Fathers and theologians of his time - including Peter Abelard. This was called he Book of Sentences which was used by many after him as a textbook in the universities. So Lombard also was a foundation that contributed to scholasticism and the building up of universities.

Lombard built upon Abelard's work, and Aquinas built upon both Abelard and Lombard. Also a lot of higher education's practices are rooted in the approaches begun by Abelard and Lombard.

Also, while Anselm advocated the satisfaction view of the atonement, Peter Abelard advocated the moral view of the atonement. This resulted in more stuff for theologians to talk about.

Also at one point Bernard of Clairvaux was pretty angry at Peter Abelard about Abelard's alleged view of the Trinity. But then there were a lot of people back then who weren't very happy with Abelard.


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Old 2nd March 2009, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LamorakDesGalis View Post




And it was Bernard of Clairvaux who spearheaded the second crusade. The third crusade is also called the crusade of kings, because the leaders were (duh) kings: (Richard the Lionhearted, Philip II of France and Frederick I).


LDG

I read that Lionheart strayed from his quest to collect a debt and ended out sacking a Ctaholic kingdom and stole Christian treasures from the Orthodox there. It was a very upsetting story.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic View Post
I read that Lionheart strayed from his quest to collect a debt and ended out sacking a Ctaholic kingdom and stole Christian treasures from the Orthodox there. It was a very upsetting story.
No doubt Richard the Lionheart wasn't a nice guy - brave, but not nice. The events though sound like events in the 4th crusade.

In 1202 crusaders gathered at Venice, because the Venetians promised to transport them to Constantinople. But for a high fee. When the crusaders didn't raise the required amount, the Venetians said they would waive the fee in return for the crusaders conquering the Christian (Catholic) city of Zara. Zara was part of Hungary, but the Venicians wanted it as part of their territory. So the crusaders conquered and sacked Zara - and Pope Innocent III excommunicated them for it.

The crusaders and the Venetians then made their way to Constantinople with their rival claimant emperor - Alexius IV. The lure of money was involved - great sums of it by Alexius. The crusaders and Venetians took the city in 1203 and setup Alexius as emperor. While the crusaders waited for their payment, in 1204 the Byzantines revolted against the puppet emperor and seized the city. The crusaders and Venetians against successfully took Constantinople, and this time they sacked the city, killing people and looting. The Venetians took treasures that they still have in their city to this day. The crusaders never made it to the Holy lands - they set themselves up as rulers throughout the empire, over the resentful Byzantines.


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