Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (Christians Only) > Theology (Christian Only) > General Theology > Origins Theology > Theistic Evolution
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Theistic Evolution The subforum for theistic evolutionist members.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 4th June 2009, 10:45 PM
Newbie

Gender: Female Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 15th April 2006
Posts: 454
Blessings: 95,331
Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,477)
peace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond repute
peace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond repute
The population to which it belongs changes over time.
Sorry, but no population can do what no member of that population can do. For example, if no male and female giraffe can breed humans descendants, then populations of giraffes certainly can't breed human descendants!

So the first step evolutionists need to take is describe the common ancestor so we know what kind of descendants his species is capable of producing in the first place before they can even continue with their story. Then the next step is to show that it's even possible for the male and female of that species to breed humans descendants before they can even talk about populations.
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #32  
Old 5th June 2009, 12:50 AM
Dark_Lite's Avatar
Chewbacha

Faith: Catholic Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 15th February 2002
Posts: 17,114
Blessings: 45,126,563
Reps: 1,238,051,283,267,514,112 (power: 1,238,051,283,267,541)
Dark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond repute
Dark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond reputeDark_Lite has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by peace4ever View Post
Sorry, but no population can do what no member of that population can do. For example, if no male and female giraffe can breed humans descendants, then populations of giraffes certainly can't breed human descendants!

So the first step evolutionists need to take is describe the common ancestor so we know what kind of descendants his species is capable of producing in the first place before they can even continue with their story. Then the next step is to show that it's even possible for the male and female of that species to breed humans descendants before they can even talk about populations.
Not. Linear.

Nested. Tree. Model.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Client-side CF enhancements for Google Chrome. Now with [bible=tag]power[/bible].

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Read CF in your mobile web browser. For all kinds of devices.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 5th June 2009, 12:54 AM
gluadys's Avatar
Legend

Gender: Female Faith: Protestant Party: CA-NDP Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd March 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,850
Blessings: 61,126
Reps: 12,567,898,174,147,644 (power: 12,567,898,174,166)
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by peace4ever View Post
Sorry, but no population can do what no member of that population can do. For example, if no male and female giraffe can breed humans descendants, then populations of giraffes certainly can't breed human descendants!

So the first step evolutionists need to take is describe the common ancestor so we know what kind of descendants his species is capable of producing in the first place before they can even continue with their story. Then the next step is to show that it's even possible for the male and female of that species to breed humans descendants before they can even talk about populations.
Question 1 Do you know the difference between breeding hybrids and cladistic speciation? You say a lot about who can't breed what, but most evolutionary change involves speciation not hybridization. So can you describe what speciation is and how it happens? Shouldn't be too difficult. Scientists regularly observe speciation in their labs.

Question 2 Have you ever heard of asexual reproduction? It's very common actually. With asexual reproduction you don't need to worry about what males and females can do. Along the same line have you ever heard about hermaphroditic species? Individuals in these species are both male and female.
__________________
"Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 5th June 2009, 01:03 AM
Mallon's Avatar
Senior Veteran

29 Gender: Male Faith: Lutheran Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 6th March 2006
Posts: 6,088
Blessings: 53,547
Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864)
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by gluadys View Post
Question 1 Do you know the difference between breeding hybrids and cladistic speciation? You say a lot about who can't breed what, but most evolutionary change involves speciation not hybridization. So can you describe what speciation is and how it happens? Shouldn't be too difficult. Scientists regularly observe speciation in their labs.

Question 2 Have you ever heard of asexual reproduction? It's very common actually. With asexual reproduction you don't need to worry about what males and females can do. Along the same line have you ever heard about hermaphroditic species? Individuals in these species are both male and female.
Do you seriously expect a more informed response beyond "birds and bees "???
__________________
"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 5th June 2009, 10:40 PM
Newbie

Gender: Female Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 15th April 2006
Posts: 454
Blessings: 95,331
Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,477)
peace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond repute
peace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Dark_Lite View Post
Not. Linear.

Nested. Tree. Model.
That says nothing. So please explain how whole populations can do what not even one couple in that population can do? Or is the story of evolution not only based on events that don't happen in reality and that no one in history can verify but also on contradictions as well? It appears so.

Last edited by peace4ever; 5th June 2009 at 10:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 6th June 2009, 11:24 PM
Newbie

Gender: Female Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 15th April 2006
Posts: 454
Blessings: 95,331
Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,477)
peace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond repute
peace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond reputepeace4ever has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by gluadys View Post
Question 1 Do you know the difference between breeding hybrids and cladistic speciation? You say a lot about who can't breed what, but most evolutionary change involves speciation not hybridization. So can you describe what speciation is and how it happens? Shouldn't be too difficult. Scientists regularly observe speciation in their labs.

Question 2 Have you ever heard of asexual reproduction? It's very common actually. With asexual reproduction you don't need to worry about what males and females can do. Along the same line have you ever heard about hermaphroditic species? Individuals in these species are both male and female.
Sorry but hybrids are almost always infertile or sterile since they depend on the exact parents to breed them. Thus they can't breed any offspring, much less large populations of their own!

So you're free to call yourself an animal if you like. But that can never make apes, monkeys, lizards, elephants, giraffes, or fictitious animals capable of breeding with humans or exchanging genes with humans. So an animal can never pass along his genes to humans nor can his genes change into humans because the human imagination wants them to. So calling a human an animal is a waste of time.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 7th June 2009, 07:45 AM
gluadys's Avatar
Legend

Gender: Female Faith: Protestant Party: CA-NDP Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd March 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,850
Blessings: 61,126
Reps: 12,567,898,174,147,644 (power: 12,567,898,174,166)
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by peace4ever View Post
Sorry but hybrids are almost always infertile or sterile since they depend on the exact parents to breed them. Thus they can't breed any offspring, much less large populations of their own!

Depends on the hybrid. If you cross a Persian cat with a Siamese cat, there is no problem with fertility.

But I didn't ask about fertility. I asked if you knew the difference between breeding hybrids and speciation? You did not describe speciation. Can you?
__________________
"Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 9th June 2009, 07:19 PM
An Arch Angel's Avatar
Newbie

Gender: Male Married Faith: Catholic Country: United States Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 7th May 2009
Posts: 114
Blessings: 66,781
Reps: 83,980,069 (power: 83,983)
An Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond repute
An Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond reputeAn Arch Angel has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by peace4ever View Post
Sorry but hybrids are almost always infertile or sterile since they depend on the exact parents to breed them. Thus they can't breed any offspring, much less large populations of their own!

So you're free to call yourself an animal if you like. But that can never make apes, monkeys, lizards, elephants, giraffes, or fictitious animals capable of breeding with humans or exchanging genes with humans. So an animal can never pass along his genes to humans nor can his genes change into humans because the human imagination wants them to. So calling a human an animal is a waste of time.

Humans are animals. They are not above or below the rest of life on this planet. Take away microbes and we die.

We are mamals. It does not mean we have to act like animals though, we are capable of great things rooted in love.

Last edited by An Arch Angel; 10th June 2009 at 06:21 AM. Reason: removed words, seemed rude when i read it later
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11th June 2009, 12:57 AM
Newbie

Gender: Male Married Faith: Atheist Party: US-Democrat Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 8th September 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 639
Blessings: 58,625
Reps: 458,358,390,381,383 (power: 458,358,390,387)
MattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond repute
MattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond reputeMattLangley has a reputation beyond repute
I don't know if acting like animals is such a bad things, I have observed animals acting much better than humans in a lot of cases.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 18th September 2009, 11:56 AM
Newbie

Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Country: United States Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 17th September 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 5
Blessings: 60,327
My Mood Busy
Reps: 10 (power: 0)
Son of My right hand is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by peace4ever View Post
That says nothing. So please explain how whole populations can do what not even one couple in that population can do? Or is the story of evolution not only based on events that don't happen in reality and that no one in history can verify but also on contradictions as well? It appears so.

I believe this comes with a basic understanding of adaptations. Adaptations are when a species becomes better suited to its habitat. For example: Europeans spread disease to Native Americans. Ninety percent of the Native population is wiped out almost immediately, but the immune system of the other ten percent deals with the foreign disease and creates an immunity that is passed down through their genes. It's really quite simple, and it explains a great deal about regional genetic characteristics (such skin color, hair colors, etc.)

Many blessings

Oh and I'm pulling these percentages out of the air as an example only. Less than ten percent lived through European occupation.

Last edited by Son of My right hand; 18th September 2009 at 11:58 AM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Theistic Evolution

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 AM.