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23rd January 2009, 02:25 AM
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So what do we make of this then? So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.
Matthew 1:17 (NKJV)
Matthew speaks of three periods of 14 generations each, 42 generations in total. In the same chapter he even names them and the impression one gets is that the three eras are about equal. OK, check this out.
Using approximate dates: (lets not get sidetracked with fine-tuning dates) - Birth Abraham BC 2100 till birth David (BC 1000) equals 1100 years equals 14? generations.
 - Birth David (BC 1000) till Babylonian exile (BC 600) equals 400 years equals 14? generations.
 - Babylonian exile (BC 600) till birth Christ (BC 1) equals 600 years equals 14? generations.
What going on? It don't stack. 
Gid
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23rd January 2009, 02:38 AM
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I'm not sure what Matthew was trying to point to but his account doesn't match up with the lineage given by the OT. Neither does Luke's.
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23rd January 2009, 01:19 PM
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Reps: 138,362,981,548,332,672 (power: 138,362,981,548,348) | | Originally Posted by Gideon  So what do we make of this then?
Matthew speaks of three periods of 14 generations each, 42 generations in total. In the same chapter he even names them and the impression one gets is that the three eras are about equal. OK, check this out.
Using approximate dates: (lets not get sidetracked with fine-tuning dates) - Birth Abraham BC 2100 till birth David (BC 1000) equals 1100 years equals 14? generations.
- Birth David (BC 1000) till Babylonian exile (BC 600) equals 400 years equals 14? generations.
- Babylonian exile (BC 600) till birth Christ (BC 1) equals 600 years equals 14? generations.
What going on? It don't stack.
Gid
7 * 6 = 42
7+7 = 14 (Abe -> David)
7+7 = 14 (David -> exile)
7+7 = 14 (exile -> Messiah)
I don't think Matthew was trying to list every person in the lineage. I think he's probably trying to make a theological point by arranging in groups of 7 (or 3 groups of 14).
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Last edited by Yekcidmij; 23rd January 2009 at 01:34 PM.
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24th January 2009, 01:04 PM
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Recall that Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born. Jesse too may have been very old as David was his youngest son. Jacob was an older man when Judah was born as well. The generations spoken of are from father to son, not a fixed number of years as is used in a broad historic sense. The greater time span of the first fourteen generations is easily explained by the older ages of those involved when they produced those children.
By dividing the three time periods by the 14 generations we get the average age of those named as patriarchs:
1100 / 14 = 78.6 years
400 / 14 = 28.5 years
600 / 14 = 43 years
Not unreasonable at all. Even when Moses was approximately 100 years old God 'threatened' to use him to father a new nation.
owg
Last edited by oldwiseguy; 25th January 2009 at 01:02 PM.
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25th January 2009, 06:43 PM
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Matthew speaks of three periods of 14 generations each, 42 generations in total. In the same chapter he even names them and the impression one gets is that the three eras are about equal. OK, check this out.
Using approximate dates: (lets not get sidetracked with fine-tuning dates) - Birth Abraham BC 2100 till birth David (BC 1000) equals 1100 years equals 14? generations.
- Birth David (BC 1000) till Babylonian exile (BC 600) equals 400 years equals 14? generations.
- Babylonian exile (BC 600) till birth Christ (BC 1) equals 600 years equals 14? generations.
What going on? It don't stack.
Gid
Matthew selected 14 important links from between Abraham and Jesus. There were more. Read the geneologies and you will find many more. |
29th January 2009, 09:45 PM
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Reps: 36,931,341,055,795,464 (power: 36,931,341,055,805) | | Originally Posted by Yekcidmij I don't think Matthew was trying to list every person in the lineage. I think he's probably trying to make a theological point by arranging in groups of 7 (or 3 groups of 14). Originally Posted by Epiphoskei Matthew selected 14 important links from between Abraham and Jesus. There were more. Read the geneologies and you will find many more.
Yes, the genealogies show that there was more ‘begating’ going on than what was mentioned by Matthew. For example “Jehoram the father of Uzziah” (Matt 1:8) But the chronicles show Jehoram, then Ahaziah, then Joash, then Amaziah, then Uzziah. So he was actually great-great grandfather! Hmmm.
OK, Matthew was making a theological point. But what was his point?
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29th January 2009, 11:47 PM
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Reps: 416,617,700,174,524,864 (power: 416,617,700,174,543) | | Originally Posted by Gideon Yes, the genealogies show that there was more ‘begating’ going on than what was mentioned by Matthew. For example “Jehoram the father of Uzziah” (Matt 1:8) But the chronicles show Jehoram, then Ahaziah, then Joash, then Amaziah, then Uzziah. So he was actually great-great grandfather! Hmmm.
OK, Matthew was making a theological point. But what was his point?
That one doesn't need to know every single blasted name so long as one can prove that Jesus came who they say he came from- David's line, traced back to Abraham's line, traced back to Eve.
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
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30th January 2009, 01:59 AM
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Reps: 13,552,530,981,778 (power: 13,552,530,990) | | Originally Posted by Gideon So what do we make of this then?
Matthew speaks of three periods of 14 generations each, 42 generations in total. In the same chapter he even names them and the impression one gets is that the three eras are about equal. OK, check this out.
Using approximate dates: (lets not get sidetracked with fine-tuning dates) - Birth Abraham BC 2100 till birth David (BC 1000) equals 1100 years equals 14? generations.
- Birth David (BC 1000) till Babylonian exile (BC 600) equals 400 years equals 14? generations.
- Babylonian exile (BC 600) till birth Christ (BC 1) equals 600 years equals 14? generations.
What going on? It don't stack.
Gid
Old Wise Guy is right about the ages. I've never known a good biblical scholar (Of which I am not)to have a problem with the chronology of Jesus in Matthew or Luke. Documents have shown them to be acurate. They are not necessarily through the first born, and Chronicles is not a geneology, just documentation.
The number seven is important and commonly used by God. It is all over and in places we haven't even discovered I'm sure. I think it is called the number of completeness. It seems to signify beginnings and ends. Notice the timespan between abraham and Jesus, 2100 years; divisible by seven!
Last edited by timlamb; 30th January 2009 at 02:09 AM.
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31st January 2009, 01:55 AM
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Reps: 285,513,216,512,518,400 (power: 285,513,216,512,529) | | | Another thing to consider is that in ancient times even a grandson was considered to be a 'son' of a patriarch. Noah called his grandson Canaan his younger 'son'. There is no indication that Ham was the youngest son of Noah, but that he cursed Canaan after he realized what his 'younger son' had done to him strongly indicates that he considered his grandson also his 'son'. Recall also that Jacob 'adopted' the sons of Joseph as his own, albeit for the purpose of conferring the 'blessing' to them particularly.
This aspect of symbolic patriarchal fatherhood may be reflected in the recording of the genealogy of Christ as well.
owg
Last edited by oldwiseguy; 31st January 2009 at 02:05 AM.
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