& amp; l t;----The real Cassidy :)
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Originally Posted by Justcap23
"2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
He wills none to perish, but He allows them to perish, even though it's against His will.
How does the Lord, if indeed being sovereign over man's will, act against His own will?
I don't see any way out of this except by man's own free will choosing to reject the Lord.
Because ALL men don't belong to him. Read the parable about the wheat and the tares. The wheat are sown by God and the tares are sown by the Devil. The wheat belong to God and the tares don't. ALL his will come to repentence because they belong to him. ALL that don't belong to him will not.
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Philippians 2.13 ...
For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do [them].
Because ALL men don't belong to him. Read the parable about the wheat and the tares. The wheat are sown by God and the tares are sown by the Devil. The wheat belong to God and the tares don't. ALL his will come to repentence because they belong to him. ALL that don't belong to him will not.
Meh, this is going in circles now. We obviously have different opinions and aren't convincing each other at all. However I do recommend that you do read at least the introduction (everything before chapter one) of the link Zeena provided so you can see a MAJOR flaw in Calvinism, if you disagree with what the author says that's fine, but at least read it. I don't even agree with everything the author says so far, but there there are a lot of things that you should know about Calvinism which is true.
One quote from Calvin "Although it is sufficiently plain that God, by his secret counsel chooses whom he will while he rejects others, his gratuitous election has only been partially explained until we come to the case of single individuals, to whom God not only offers salvation, but so assigns it, that the certainty of the result remains not dubious or suspended...We say, then, that Scripture clearly prove this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life, by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment." III, 21, 7
When asked what the two greatest commandments were Jesus said" Love thy God with all thy heart,soul,Mind and strength.
And Love thy neighbor as thy self.
it is by grace that we are saved but we need to work to at least do our best to uphold these two commandments.
__________________ Call to me,and I will answer you,and show you great and mighty things which you do not know.Jeremiah 33:3
What does it REALLY mean: "to have faith", "to believe"?
I wrote this already yesterday, but wanted to sleep over it.
As I still think the same way, let it come out:
Jesus says it quite clearly in His farewell speech to the disciples, that can be read mainly in John 15.
Some quotes:
* I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that bears no fruit, He takes away...
* If a man not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and is withered...
* Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.
* You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain...
* If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love...
* These things I command you: that you love one another.
* Continue you in my love.
Being and living as a Christian means forgetting about selfish motives, denying yourself, suffering the hate of the world... following Christ, living in Christ, and becoming more and more like Him. That is the kind of faith that opens the door to the Kingdom of Heaven.
How to gain such faith? By grace, of course, but we have to take it seriously. We have to live for Christ, not for ourselves. We have to "abide in Christ", so that He will abide in us, and we can live a godly, sanctified life. We have to stick to Him.
God already showed grace by sending His Son to tell us what He expects from us. A Christian (= a follower of Christ) shows faith by obeying Christ, by keeping his words.
If a person believes that he/she is saved, because Jesus died for his/her sins, but does not (want) follow Jesus and try to keep His commandments - is he/she Christian at all? Here, grace has become cheap, although it should be the most precious thing for a Christian.
Yes, it's all about grace and faith - but how do we define those words? How do we understand them?
When asked what the two greatest commandments were Jesus said" Love thy God with all thy heart,soul,Mind and strength.
And Love thy neighbor as thy self.
it is by grace that we are saved but we need to work to at least do our best to uphold these two commandments.
It's the work of God in and through us which accomplishes the Righteousness of the Law of Living.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
& amp; l t;----The real Cassidy :)
34
Join Date: 2nd February 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,433
Blessings: 64,476
My Mood
Reps: 27,393,420,178,947 (power: 27,393,420,183)
Originally Posted by Justcap23
Meh, this is going in circles now. We obviously have different opinions and aren't convincing each other at all. However I do recommend that you do read at least the introduction (everything before chapter one) of the link Zeena provided so you can see a MAJOR flaw in Calvinism, if you disagree with what the author says that's fine, but at least read it. I don't even agree with everything the author says so far, but there there are a lot of things that you should know about Calvinism which is true.
One quote from Calvin "Although it is sufficiently plain that God, by his secret counsel chooses whom he will while he rejects others, his gratuitous election has only been partially explained until we come to the case of single individuals, to whom God not only offers salvation, but so assigns it, that the certainty of the result remains not dubious or suspended...We say, then, that Scripture clearly prove this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life, by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment." III, 21, 7
I don't care about calvinism really, my beliefs just so happen to run in with the T and the U in TULIP....I just go by what the bible says....that is all.
I really do wish you would read the bible about the wheat and the tares though...just read the parable and then Christ's (not man's) explaination of the parable straight after...it's in Matt 11 I believe.
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Philippians 2.13 ...
For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do [them].
What does it REALLY mean: "to have faith", "to believe"? 
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