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  #1  
Old 19th January 2009, 07:01 PM
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Our Lady of Fatima: Song of Solomon 6:10 (NIV)

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Money As Debt

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  #2  
Old 19th January 2009, 10:21 PM
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Money is debt to the issuer. It is an IOU (asset) to the holder.

It doesn't matter what money was before the world went off the gold standard. Right now, in this year, money is a electronic book keeping entry. Money performs two functions. It permits an easy way to compare different sorts of assets, allows one to multiply apples and oranges. It allows one to compare the value of one's time with various assets. Money is a negotiable IOU.

A double entry book keeping system always balances. THE accountant works on it until it does. Real estate is an asset. An IOU is an asset. If the bank takes effective title on my real estate and gives me money in exchange the balance doesn't change IF the market value of the real estate equals the value of the IOU/money.

The problem developed because the government and the politicians permitted the banks to issue more "money" than the property was worth at the time of the transaction. Secondly, because a person who gets a zero down mortgage has no financial interest in the property. These people are not losing "Their" houses. They are losing their use of the bank's houses.
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Old 20th January 2009, 10:38 AM
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You are correct. It is the banks that are the big losers in the subprime meltdown. That is why the bailout money is mostly going to shore up the banking system.

Our monetary system is run by modern day moneychangers; the same ones that Jesus drove out of the temple. They change the value of money every time they get their hands on it. By the time the average man gets it it is so debt laden it isn't worth much.

owg
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Old 20th January 2009, 10:11 PM
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No one will like this:

1. Issue coins in denominations up to $20.

2. Call in all cash money

3. eliminate the income tax

4. go to a 100% electronic transfer money system except for petty cash

5. put a 5% transfer tax on every electronic transfer, half on each end.

6. post every electronic transfer on the web.

7. Death penalty for cooking the books.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by billwald View Post
No one will like this:

1. Issue coins in denominations up to $20.

2. Call in all cash money

3. eliminate the income tax

4. go to a 100% electronic transfer money system except for petty cash

5. put a 5% transfer tax on every electronic transfer, half on each end.

6. post every electronic transfer on the web.

7. Death penalty for cooking the books.
Sorry billwald, you have many good things to say in this debate, but here you are missing the core issues. The core issues are:
  1. What are the core aims of the economy? (Currently the core aims of the power brokers who run the world economy are to increase their power and to enslave the world for their selfish gain. The core aims of the economy should be the mutual benefit of the human race through a co-operative effort of independent nation states each committed to the benefit of their own populations first. This has systematically been destroyed by globalizm. This must be reversed!)
  2. Who is going to have the privilege of issuing currency? (Currently the power to issue money has been swindled from the people to the banking oligarchy, who charge us for the privilege of using it. Interest-bearing credit should be issued only to private individuals and for private corporate ventures. All public issuance of credit should be interest free. The Treasury Bond system of raising government finances has led to the bankruptcy of the major economies of the world, and should be stopped now!)
  3. Who is going to decide where currency is injected into the economy? (Currently, credit is issued primarily into private financial institutions for the benefit of global corporations with no loyalty to local communities or even nations. This has caused a collapse in developed economies and a rise in slave-labor economies that only ultimately benefit the globalists. This economic imperialism by the banking elite must be stopped! By making credit available for essential industrial development and government use at no, or low, interest rates, capital will be preserved for continual development for the benefit of local populations, not an elite few with no care for local communities.)
  4. The current global financial system is utterly bankrupt and must be totally restructured, with the wholesale elimination of debt in it's current form, and a new system rebuilt on lines outlined above. The current system is beyond restoration. Our civilization will not survive anything less! A few bailouts here and there, a few 'make work' projects to try to patch up the current system will be futile. Whole countries are currently in meltdown - USA, UK, Russia and China are the main ones. The world will not survive the total collapse of these main engines of the world economy.
Once you have addressed these issues, and only then, can you realistically start to address the issues of the mechanics of the monetary system that you have outlined. Without the former, the latter is irrelevant.
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Old 25th January 2009, 03:03 AM
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>The core aims of the economy should be the mutual benefit of the human race through a co-operative effort of independent nation states each committed to the benefit of their own populations first. This has systematically been destroyed by globalizm. This must be reversed!)

AGREE!

>Who is going to have the privilege of issuing currency?

The U.S. Treasury. I hate the term, "currency" because it implies printed and coined money, cash. Is that what you are referring to? It is convenient for small purchases, bribing politicians, and selling dope but amounts to less than 5% of the dollars in circulation.

A question . . . when I use my credit card, whose credit am I using? Mine or the banks? If you say the banks, then why is my credit rating important?


> (Currently the power to issue money has been swindled from the people to the banking oligarchy, who charge us for the privilege of using it. Interest-bearing credit should be issued only to private individuals and for private corporate ventures. All public issuance of credit should be interest free.

Say again??


>The Treasury Bond system of raising government finances has led to the bankruptcy of the major economies of the world, and should be stopped now!)

How, then, should the federal govt raise funds?

>Who is going to decide where currency is injected into the economy?

You mean when credit is injected into the economy? Congress.

> . . . By making credit available for essential industrial development and government use at no, or low, interest rates, capital will be preserved for continual development for the benefit of local populations

Exactly what do you mean by capital? Yes, cash on the books is considered an asset but pragmatically cash is only useful as credit to be exchanged for goods or services. Money has no intrinsic value except as credit.

> The world will not survive the total collapse of these main engines of the world economy.

I think we will end up with city-states like in the 1300's.
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