Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (Christians Only) > Theology > General Theology > Hamartiology
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Hamartiology The forum to discuss the doctrine of sin, the origin of sin and how sin entered into the world.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 30th April 2009, 11:32 PM
Senior Member

61 Gender: Male Married Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 29th November 2006
Posts: 1,648
Blessings: 28,876
My Mood Praying
Reps: 24,810,108,589,080 (power: 24,810,108,593)
Hismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond repute
Hismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond repute
The truth is that the creation was already fallen thanks to Satan. He was the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil. And he was cut down leaving the stump and HIS roots in the earth, us. This is why we are born in sin because his sin nature is the root left in us. Until the root is pulled up and burned, it can grow back into the earth again.
He was in the garden, the anointed cherub which covers, until He fell into iniquity. All as Oldwiseguy said according to the divine will of God.

hismessenger
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #22  
Old 1st May 2009, 01:20 AM
beloved57's Avatar
Veteran

Gender: Male Faith: Calvinist Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 16th June 2006
Posts: 3,720
Blessings: 46,437
Blog Entries: 3
Reps: 183,725,309 (power: 0)
beloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond repute
beloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond repute
The truth is that the creation was already fallen thanks to Satan.
Thats a lie, sin entered into the world by one mans sin, not by the devils sin..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 1st May 2009, 10:20 AM
MamaZ's Avatar
Member

Gender: Female Married Faith: Christian Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 1 Years
 
Join Date: 10th May 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,015
Blessings: 166,680
My Mood Cheeky
Reps: 351,258,369,331,887 (power: 351,258,369,344)
MamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond repute
MamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond reputeMamaZ has a reputation beyond repute
Sin entered in through Adam..
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth; You have set Your glory above the heavens!
Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings, You have ordained strength, because of the ones distressing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease.
Psa 8:3 When I look upon Your heavens, the work of Your fingers: the moon and the stars which You have fixed;
Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?
Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God; and have crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all under his feet:
Psa 8:7 all flocks and oxen, and also the animals of the field,
Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, all that pass through the sea.
Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 1st May 2009, 12:34 PM
Senior Member

61 Gender: Male Married Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 29th November 2006
Posts: 1,648
Blessings: 28,876
My Mood Praying
Reps: 24,810,108,589,080 (power: 24,810,108,593)
Hismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond repute
Hismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond repute
It all goes to your understanding of what is said in the scripture.
Here is a picture of Satan who brought sin into the creation.


Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Your looking only at man by which sin entered into mankind but sin came into being through none other than Satan himself. Until iniquity was found in thee. What is iniquity? SIN. Christ came not only to restore mankind but to restore the entire creation.

Don't believe it, then read it for yourself;

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected [it] in hope;

Rom 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
When the crowning creature of the creation sinned against God, all creation fell with us but sin came into the creation through the father of lies. Who then caused Adam to sin thus subjecting the entire creation to futility, according to the divine will of God.

What God has purposed is still a mystery to us but;

Rev 10:7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished , as He declared to His servants the prophets.
He has revealed to us certain things but there are other things which only He knows the reason why and wherefore of. Call it a lie if you want, I only came to serve.

hismessenger
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 3rd May 2009, 10:46 AM
beloved57's Avatar
Veteran

Gender: Male Faith: Calvinist Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 16th June 2006
Posts: 3,720
Blessings: 46,437
Blog Entries: 3
Reps: 183,725,309 (power: 0)
beloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond repute
beloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond reputebeloved57 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by MamaZ View Post
Sin entered in through Adam..
Hi mama..you do realize that eve was adam dont you ?

gen 1:


So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

gen 5:

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 8th July 2009, 01:07 AM
hlaltimus's Avatar
Senior Member

Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 4 Years
 
Join Date: 4th November 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 874
Blessings: 33,193
Reps: 2,008 (power: 7)
hlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of lighthlaltimus is a glorious beacon of light
I believe that sin entered the world of our universe initially by Satan, but the then world in which Satan was a free agent, excluded Adam who was yet to be made. When Eve sinned, sin then entered into her and into her alone, but when Adam sinned as an accomplice to Eve, sin then entered into him and into the race that proceeded from him as the nature of the race descended through the male and not through the female. Sin then, entered into the world of mankind through a man, but he was still not the author of sin, only the propagator of it into his new but very mutable world.
__________________
H L Altimus
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 16th July 2009, 09:44 PM
Senior Member

61 Gender: Male Married Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 29th November 2006
Posts: 1,648
Blessings: 28,876
My Mood Praying
Reps: 24,810,108,589,080 (power: 24,810,108,593)
Hismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond repute
Hismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond reputeHismessenger has a reputation beyond repute
I'm glad to see someone who looks at the whole truth instead of what is on the surface of one book. There are so many variables to this subject but there is one undeniable truth. Satan sinned before Adam and Eve, thus the creation was already fallen but when Adam sinned it took all of mankind with Him as you so aptly pointed out.

blessings to you.

hismessenger
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 16th October 2009, 09:24 PM
Veteran

Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Others Country: United States
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 13th February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 1,793
Blessings: 37,747
Reps: 14,939,142,300,577 (power: 0)
Benefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond repute
Benefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond reputeBenefactor has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Sin entered in the world when eve sinned!
1 tim 2:

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This scripture passage, establishes two things.#1, Federal Headship of the man, and # 2 that adam because of his headship was guilty of eves transgression, so much as so, it is said to be his rom 5:

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

You see, God called their name Adam gen 5:


1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So eves transgression was adams transgression..

Some will object to this, but its still true..

as soon as eve ate of the fruit, death pervaded their beings, Just as God said to adam gen 2:


16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

You see, some erronously believe that adam had a choice as to wether or not he could have not eaten of the fruit his wife ate of and gave of him to eat.

Well the truth of the matter is, adam was already dead from the immediate effects of eves transgression, so he yielded himself as a servant of sin..

rom 6:

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You see, adams unhestitant compliance to eves giving to him of the fruit to eat also, goes to prove that he was already dead to God, and alive to sin..sin had begun its rule over him and mankind at this time..
To say that Adam sinned because Eve sinned is a strange way to see things. Quite frankly it simply cannot be proved that Adam was automatically considered dead in sin and trespasses simply because Eve sinned.

There is room for theory but to form dogmatism around speculation has no merit. There could be a number of possibilities from the human perspective. All view fall short simply because we don't know and God has not chosen to reveal what He would have done in such a case. Make a list of the possibilities and that is as far as it goes and all views wind up back at the start line only to think it to death once more.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Hamartiology

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:21 AM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios