That analogy fit in very limited ways. The biggest difference is Eve did suffer and most would agree suffered more then Adam.
Another thing to remember is that this is what God had planned from their creation. She was made to bear children, he to work hard physically, even before the fall. I also believe that the flesh eating animals were created for that purpose as well even though they at first ate only things that grew from the earth.
The events in the garden were preplanned and orchestrated by God, imo. It was a necessary preface to all the events that would follow. We sometimes read great judgement and condemnation into the text when it is often really a matter-of-fact narrative that describes part of a continuing plan. Events that followed the fall weren't reactive but rather the next steps in a carefully planned process.
Another thing to remember is that this is what God had planned from their creation. She was made to bear children, he to work hard physically, even before the fall. I also believe that the flesh eating animals were created for that purpose as well even though they at first ate only things that grew from the earth.
The events in the garden were preplanned and orchestrated by God, imo. It was a necessary preface to all the events that would follow. We sometimes read great judgement and condemnation into the text when it is often really a matter-of-fact narrative that describes part of a continuing plan. Events that followed the fall weren't reactive but rather the next steps in a carefully planned process.
owg
Are you saying since Eve bore children she is like the “church” that bares children? That again is misleading: the church does not make children of God. God/Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit found in individuals can provide the means for non Christians to become Christians. The children that were born by Eve had no say in whether they would be children or not; while every child of God in the Church chose to be there. Also the “church” does not “make” children/Christians.
The garden did not have to be “planned out”, because what happened was inevitable given the situation, as anyone could have figured out. The lessons gained from the Garden were great for Adam and Eve and are wonderful for us. We can all come to the realization that the Garden is a lousy place to fulfill our objective in this life and how much better off we are outside the Garden being forgiven sinners. Would you like to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to obey God or would you prefer to have your eternal close relationship with God dependent on God’s Love/grace/mercy/forgiveness and the result of Christ’s obedience?
Why its is everybody blaming gods creation for this sin nature idea
quiet clearly its gods fault, 'not Adam or eve's fault ' that mankind has this sin nature problem because of the choice god makes.
You see god is the designer of his creation and he designed his creation so that the sin nature would transfer from parent to child at birth.
It looks like god wanted the rest of his creation to fail to.
Forcing this sin nature problem on us robs us of our freewill, because it prevents us from making the one and only right choice 'choosing to live a perfect life just like Jesus did'.
And here's another point to conceder,
when the bible accuses Adam of being the one responsible for the rest of mankind having a sin nature it does so falsely.
In doing so not only does the 'word of God' lie, its breaking the commandment thou shall not bare false witness.
Are you saying since Eve bore children she is like the “church” that bares children? That again is misleading: the church does not make children of God. God/Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit found in individuals can provide the means for non Christians to become Christians. The children that were born by Eve had no say in whether they would be children or not; while every child of God in the Church chose to be there. Also the “church” does not “make” children/Christians.
The garden did not have to be “planned out”, because what happened was inevitable given the situation, as anyone could have figured out. The lessons gained from the Garden were great for Adam and Eve and are wonderful for us. We can all come to the realization that the Garden is a lousy place to fulfill our objective in this life and how much better off we are outside the Garden being forgiven sinners. Would you like to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to obey God or would you prefer to have your eternal close relationship with God dependent on God’s Love/grace/mercy/forgiveness and the result of Christ’s obedience?
I was referring to physical childbirth, nothing more.
However Eve is certainly a type of the church in that she had to be redeemed from death by the substitutionary sacrifice, which prefigured the death of Christ to redeem his bride, the church. Adam, prefiguring Christ (the 'second' Adam), actually sacrificed himself by eating the fruit, knowingly incurring the death penalty on Eve's behalf.
The Garden of Eden only existed for a short time. It represented the Paradise of the Kingdom that was lost. In it God re-created the rebellion of Lucifer using Adam and Eve as principal players.
Because he is replacing Lucifer and the rebellious angels with Christ and the Church in a restored kingdom he has to fashion new creatures through the process of sinfulness/repentance/and finally conversion to a new creation that will not rebel once resurrected and changed to spirit.
I was referring to physical childbirth, nothing more.
However Eve is certainly a type of the church in that she had to be redeemed from death by the substitutionary sacrifice, which prefigured the death of Christ to redeem his bride, the church. Adam, prefiguring Christ (the 'second' Adam), actually sacrificed himself by eating the fruit, knowingly incurring the death penalty on Eve's behalf.
The Garden of Eden only existed for a short time. It represented the Paradise of the Kingdom that was lost. In it God re-created the rebellion of Lucifer using Adam and Eve as principal players.
Because he is replacing Lucifer and the rebellious angels with Christ and the Church in a restored kingdom he has to fashion new creatures through the process of sinfulness/repentance/and finally conversion to a new creation that will not rebel once resurrected and changed to spirit.
owg
Adam did not die for Eve or Eve would not have died. Christ died for the Church (Christians) so they could/would live forever. God did not call Adam’s eating of the fruit a “sacrifice” in any way. Adam does not try to justify to God His sin by calling it a sacrifice. Adam did sin because of his desire for Eve and not because he was deceived. I see it as the original story of “Romeo and Juliet” with Adam not wanting to live without Eve. Adam would go where Eve was going because Adam’s love for Eve was greater then the love he had for God.
This is not some entertaining “Play” for God to reenact some historic battle. God has written many Parables that are truly parallel to the Spiritual meaning. These are not parallel at all.
Silentthinker said: Why its is everybody blaming gods creation for this sin nature idea
quiet clearly its gods fault, 'not Adam or eve's fault ' that mankind has this sin nature problem because of the choice god makes.
If we do not blame Adam and Eve then we blame God? We have been made to fulfill our objective in this life and not to not sin. We are not made to sin, but to fulfill our objective of obtaining and growing Godly type Love. (Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others). Sinning actually has a purpose for the nonbeliever in that by sinning: you create a burden; you seek forgiveness from your creator; you trust your creator to love you enough to forgive you; and in accepting God’s forgiveness you Love much Luke 19 “… he that is forgiven much Loves much…”. Now, that does not mean you should go on sinning after you have been forgiven, because you have Love and growing Love is through using that Love which can not be done if you are sinning.
Silentthinker said:
You see god is the designer of his creation and he designed his creation so that the sin nature would transfer from parent to child at birth.
It looks like god wanted the rest of his creation to fail to.
Forcing this sin nature problem on us robs us of our freewill, because it prevents us from making the one and only right choice 'choosing to live a perfect life just like Jesus did'.
We are all alike, because we all sin. Again we have not been made to sin, but in making us to fulfill the objective we will sin. Sin is not the problem (you can not keep from ever sinning) , but unforgiven sin is a huge problem. Once you do Love then you can obey, because you have the indwelling Holy Spirit to help you. When deity lives inside a human and is allowed to sharer in all that human does You/He will not sin.
Silentthinker said: And here's another point to conceder,
when the bible accuses Adam of being the one responsible for the rest of mankind having a sin nature it does so falsely.
In doing so not only does the 'word of God' lie, its breaking the commandment thou shall not bare false witness.
The Bible does not accuse Adam of being “responsible” for sinful nature. It is the byproduct of being able to accept Godly type Love and grow that Love. Adam shows us why the Garden situation does not work and why we need a place to accept and Grow Godly type Love separate and apart from our resting place (heaven). This earth is not our home, but it is an easy and great place to accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness/mercy/grace.
Adam did not die for Eve or Eve would not have died. Christ died for the Church (Christians) so they could/would live forever. God did not call Adam’s eating of the fruit a “sacrifice” in any way. Adam does not try to justify to God His sin by calling it a sacrifice. Adam did sin because of his desire for Eve and not because he was deceived. I see it as the original story of “Romeo and Juliet” with Adam not wanting to live without Eve. Adam would go where Eve was going because Adam’s love for Eve was greater then the love he had for God.
This is not some entertaining “Play” for God to reenact some historic battle. God has written many Parables that are truly parallel to the Spiritual meaning. These are not parallel at all.
This is a play on a grand scale, and God has re-enacted the great angelic battles on the stage of human history. He has written and directed it and will bring the final curtain down as he has revealed through his prophets. The fall of Adam and Eve is a microtype of all the great conspiracies, rebellions, and wars that came before and after them. One must understand this to understand what the grand purpose of God is. We focus on personal salvation, and that is as it should be, but there is more going on here than just that. God is restoring his lost Kingdom, and his glory. Nothing is more important than that. The only reason we are included is because God isn't going to replace the fallen angels with more angels.
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
So when eve transgressed, adam did to..eves sin was adams sin..likewise the churches sin was Jesus christ sin..thats why he gave his life for the church, for she was bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh..he was held acconatable for her sins by imputation and adam was held accoutable for eves sin by imputation..he die the second she ate, why you think he yielded so easily to her ? because he was dead too..
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