Liberal or conservative? - TEC

Originally Posted by higgs2

So like, thirty years is not "very recently" to me, dude.

Yes, there are more precise words in our language, but thirty (is it really that long?) is recent as history goes. One generation. And thirty is a significant number.

For 200+ years in TEC history no one saw any need for this change. But about thirty years ago was when the Continuing Anglican movement took off and parishes began bailing. The property ownership change IOW was not done for any reason other than to be spiteful and was thinkable only because the votes were there to enable the majority to do whatever it wanted with the minority. There never was a genuine issue about the parishes "stealing" anything; that was just something that could be said by way of justifying the majority's actions to the folks back home.

THAT's the biggie in my mind, even moreso than the hot button issues (Gay clergy, liturgies, whatever) themselves.

I'm a registered Libertarian. Though I don't consider myself 100% aligned with their theories, they are the mainstream party that most closely reflects my own social ideals. I like to consider my politics as 'civil libertarianism' (that is: concern with [maximizing] civil liberties), and my economics to be Republican.

Objectivists within the Libertarian movement seem to be responsible for the mass perception of individualism being a conservative ideology of 'the right' in opposition to the collectivism of 'the left.' I don't necessarily see it that way.

Though I am fiscally conservative (my economic ideology being more closely aligned with the Republican party and thus diverging from the Libertarian 'vision'), I see civil libertarianism as being quite liberal being that restricting certain behaviors and lifestyles is seen as a typical 'conservative' agenda.

On the other hand, just because I believe all should be free to 'do what they do' within reason doesn't mean I personally agree with or advocate certain beliefs and lifestyles that Libertarianism would enable. It's a modified version of the quote falsely (and famously) attributed to Voltaire: "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it [but don't expect me to say it with you.]"

All that being said, I have to say that I'm uncomfortable with the 'liberalism' of TEC and my local EC in particular. I feel I'd fit in better with a 'conservative' parish, but the option simply isn't available due to the local demographics. I still harbor traditional (or ignorant, depending on your perspective) views concerning the roles gender and orientation should play in church.

Though my ideal society is one in which individual liberty is championed, I personally believe traditional order still has its place - and one of those places is in theological expression. Not to say I think 'liberal' theology or congregations shouldn't exist - rather that they are a mixed blessing.

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Me too (as far as being libertarian). I am an extreme fiscal conservative, more so than a republican party which gives welfare to corporations.

On the other hand, I am an extreme liberal Episcopalian. I feel fiscally it is the
Church's job to take care of those that cannot take care of themselves, as opposed to the taxpayer's job.

Frankly, I would love it if the ECUSA entered into full communion with the Unitarian Universalists, but that of course is just personal preference.

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Originally Posted by ProdigalSeeker

Me too (as far as being libertarian). I am an extreme fiscal conservative, more so than a republican party which gives welfare to corporations.

On the other hand, I am an extreme liberal Episcopalian. I feel fiscally it is the
Church's job to take care of those that cannot take care of themselves, as opposed to the taxpayer's job.

Frankly, I would love it if the ECUSA entered into full communion with the Unitarian Universalists, but that of course is just personal preference.

So hard to answer this kind of question, in part because both liberal and conservatives come in differing degrees...and also because both of those words have changed their meaning over the years. We Libertarians, for example, are classical liberals, but when anyone speaks of Liberalism in the political sense these days they mean moderate Socialism.

I was a bit surprised, FWIW, that you seemed to describe the idea of the church taking care of the poor and needy as liberal. That's what a church ought to do rather than the government, just as you noted; and this would seem to make that policy nothing especially liberal or anything that a conservative would take exception to.

Churches (well any religious body, synagogues, mosques) are also better at it, for the most part.

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I voted moderately liberal since the focus is on political and social issues.

If it were about core theology, I'd say strongly conservative on Nicene/Apostles' Creed-type stuff, unpredictable beyond that.

And my political liberalism is of the classical liberal or libertarian variety, hence my Libertarian Party icon, which I do really mean, having been an LP member since 1972. I'm glad to see several other Libertarians here!

I'm not formally Episcopalian (my church membership is Assemblies of God), but I sometimes attend services at St. Mark's Cathedral in Seattle, the seat of the Diocese of Olympia. And I've always considered myself an honorary Anglican because of my love for the writings of C.S. Lewis and +Tom Wright. There is no Old Catholic church in my state, but Utrecht may be my closest doctrinal match, so I thought I'd give that icon a try, and see how it feels.

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Originally Posted by New_Found_Faith

Those of you who have responded thus far, do you think that your faith influences your political views?

It does, though not quite in the usual way. General revelation, that is the lessons of Creation itself, show me that mankind is meant to be free, in the sense of individual liberty. I got that lesson from Taoism, from Locke's theory of Natural Law (both of which I still believe in as a Christian, though now I consider them merely aspects of God, observations of how He works), and from my extensive self-study of economics, history and political philosophy. All that was before I returned to my childhood Christian faith, and nothing I'm learned since has convinced me otherwise. Therefore I have been, and remain, a classical liberal or libertarian.

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