Dissuading New Christians.

I'm trying to get at your motivation.

Is it like, you are his friend, and you think he is deluded, because the religion is a delusion, so, because you care, you kind of want to get him to question it as much as you do?

Is it a thing where, and this happens the most when someone suddenly gets tongues, where...Let's put it this way. I used to babysit these wonderful kids when I was in HS for a single mom who was a nurse. I went to this Christian Rock retreat, but some of the people in our group, who I had never met, were Pentecostal, I had never heard of tongues, and a day later, was speaking in tongues myself.

Suddenly, my tongue is flying around without me telling it to. It felt different, I simply had to allow it, and it happened. However, the tongues was very far behind the fact that I understood that I was worthy of God's love. I often had low self esteem, and thought that God couldn't love me, if I barely like myself. It made God seem real, and it felt as if I was Alice, stepping through the looking glass, and seeing the world in a whole new way. I was very excited about God, really excited, even though I had been a Christian all my life. I hadn't really felt God that often, thought of God as this silent father who you can talk to, but never answers, and at most, offers you a book, and makes you search for it, often in confusing language.

So, because this seemed to be like shifting from 2nd gear into 5th gear, making it more intense, I had a tendency to rattle off about God a lot. After the retreat, I remember someone from my church stopping to say hi in the market, asking how I was, and saying that I was great, that I just received the Baptism of the HS at a retreat this past weekend, am speaking in tongues, and really excited about God. She responded, "that's nice. How's your mom?"

I mentioned it to my mother, who told me that my two sisters do as well, having had similar experiences. Apparently, my mom has weird encounters with God, such as, when she was vacuuming, and in the doorway, saw a bright light, which said, "I want all of your children." God literally speaks to her, everything gets quiet, and a voice speaks.


Naturally, unable to contain my joy, I said something to the woman I babysat for. She said, "Good for you. I do to. But you know, I will tell you this: People after they receive the baptism of the HS should be locked up for a year. You are kind of excited about this new phenomenon which made God seem so real, and excited about God, and Jesus, while almost being too excited, not being able to convey it clearly, thinking that this is great, and you want to share it, when people don't even understand what you are talking about. And you will be so excited, that you won't be able to notice.

I was confused why no one had ever told me, but my sister told me that for her, it became 2nd nature, felt normal after a while. She also reminded me that tongues is a gift, and to focus on the Giver.

So, I was kind of....socially awkward for a while in the beginning, being in such a different head space than others, assuming they all want the joy that I have, wanting so badly to give it to them, but talking from a very different place than they were from, and thus, talking over their head, or simply not being aware of the situation of the person.

The group that I was with would go street witnessing, which felt really weird to me, being so shy in the first place, and also, I mean, I hate when those people come up, ask you if would take a survey, which consists of questions, like" What are the 4 Spiritual Truths" or "If you die tonight, do you know where you will spend eternity?" But there was a sense of urgency, wanting to please God, serving him by helping "save" people, so that they would not perish. One member said that for every soul that he brings to God, he will receive a crown in heaven, and he wants as many as he can so that he may throw them at the feet of God.

For that reason, his conversions seemed rather shallow, kind of a drive-by witnessing, something that I would imagine would be like the seed falling in the rocky ground, shooting up, and withering as quickly, simply because there is no follow up. Maybe that is because he was thinking selfishly about those crowns, and looking good in front of God.

And my beliefs have really been challenged, and I am much more like an aged wine, now, believing much differently, and witnessing by living my life, and in so, people are drawn to the God within me, and I give him the credit.

I no longer inappropriately bring up religion and salvation, thinking that God wants me to at every turn. I no longer spend a lot of time worrying about sin, but rather, looking for opportunities to love and make the world a better place. I no longer have a very rigid view of religion, God, and Salvation, but a much more unitarian view that allows for the breadth and depth of God's love.

So, your friend might be there. You friend might be happy because he realizes that he is loved by God. I thought myself so small, so insignificant, so pedestrian, along with a lot of shame about being too something, not something enough, and for the first time, I felt that I was loved right then, who I was then, the totality of who I was, worthy of it, and I was surprised, amazed, thankful, and a bit crazy. I wanted to share that with everyone, but kind of fumbled my way through.

I would ask your friend about it - what happened that made him so happy, what changed, what it means to him, to your friendship with him, how he feels about your different views and opinions on religion, and explore it together.

As much as you probably don't want him to be constantly nagging you to convert, he probably wants you to grant him the same courtesy by respecting his beliefs, and allowing him to have them, and practice them.

Dig into the deeper issues. I often say that I see God in all religions because the Truth comes through so many of them. Buddhism says to treat others in loving kindness, to give without worrying about payment. Christianity says to love your neighbor as yourself, and in doing so, according to the Parable of the Sheep and Goats, you are loving God simultaneously through loving others. Muslims are obligated to feed the poor, and it is very important to them and their culture. Hindis believe that anyone in front of you was probably related to you at one time, an uncle, a child, a parent or spouse, and that you should treat the person in front of you with the same care and love as a family member, think of them as family. You are to present yourself to guests as a servant, treating them as gods, lowering yourself in humility and service, and doing it graciously.

So many of the religions, when compared, ring true with the same elements. When there are elements that are very different, and not echoing throughout the others, I then question it, test it, seeing something of God that is not like a dandelion, growing wherever it sees fit, even in the impossibility of a crack in the sidewalk. I think man takes a simple concept, that God only asks of us that we live in love, loving one another and caring for one another, and in so, serve and love God, and know God. The answer is too easy, so we overlook the obvious, the beauty in its simplicity, and create dogma, criteria, ritual, and then, having created them, enslave ourselves and others to them, demanding that the only way that one can be a Real Christian (TM) is to believe what they believe, believe in the dogma and criteria that they created themselves.

I longer see a point to decide who is or isn't Christian, because the person does not serve me, nor can I know the heart of the person, even if I know them very well. We spend 24/7 with ourselves, and still barely know who we are, so it is foolishness for me to claim to know your heart

I no longer feel a panic to save the world before the Rapture, Judgment Day, thinking that it is around the corner, reading into Rev. Rather, I think that this is the day that the Lord has made, and I will rejoice and be glad. I will stay present in the now. I will trust that Christ's sacrifice did indeed take away the sin of the whole world, and all of us will find our way back to God, like Salmon swimming up stream. And rather than tell people about my religious views, I live them.

But thanks for (yet again) proving my position about non's and anti's versus Christians. The usual suspects as it were.

Interesting question because the two side’s answers would be different. I’ve heard Christian evangelizing likened to warning a motorist that they’re speeding towards a cliff (hell). So, obviously, for the Christian, not evangelizing would be immoral.

The atheist’s case is different. If you don’t “evangelize” your friend towards atheism, what is the result for him? Nothing. He remains Christian, is happily deluded, and experiences the same fate as you upon death, i.e., nothing.

So as I see it – the more strongly you believe your atheism, the less reason there is to convince anyone else of the truth of it. So I’d say, there’s no need to be untruthful about your atheistic beliefs, but at the same time, there’s no reason to “push it”. So go ahead and pull your punches, because there’s no reason or advantage to anyone to throw full punches, and as you said, it is kinder.

Yeah I just thought of that too, If I did try to dissuade him of his belief and was successful I would probably feel beholden to replace his happy, snuggly, content beliefs with what,... Richard Dawkins? Palease.

But isn't atheism the snuggliest belief of all? Live for self and pleasure, go to sleep peacefully forever, no consequences... ah, but that's another thread.

But isn't atheism the snuggliest belief of all? Live for self and pleasure, go to sleep peacefully forever, no consequences... ah, but that's another thread.

Why do you care?
Live and let live.

I want my friend to be happy.

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