Escape to Canada: US Army Reserves

Beanieboy · #1 9th January 2009, 06:51 PM

There is a documentary called Escape to Canada. The movie makes comparisons between the US and Canada. 1 shows that the Canadian laws for marijuana are far more relaxed. They argue why marijuana isn't really that harsh of a drug to worry about in the first place, when alcohol seems to lead to far more fights, and stoned people simply giggle and talk in a mellow fashion.

They look at the US gay marriage issue, show protesters against gay marriage saying things like, "If we allow two men to marry, soon they will be marrying their sister, their mother, or the family dog." It's funny up in Toronto, because it's legal, and not a lot of brothah-sistah love going on, nor guys trying to marry Lassie.

But the last is kind of sad. The show people who are in the US Army Reserves. They sign a contract to be able to go to war should it happen during their contract. They sign on for a two year stint. Unfortunately, what has been happening is that the soldiers are living up to their end of the bargain, serving their time, but then told a week later, that they have to go back for another two years, sometimes being asked to go back even 3 times.

In the movie, a soldier had fled to Canada, asking for asylum. He did his two year contract, and saw what is happening in Iraq. He realized that he doesn't think the US should be there, but also thinks that he shouldn't be forced to go back to Iraq after fulfilling his 2 year obligation.

There is currently a woman who is also in the Reserves who served, and asked to go back, who doesn't want to go, and fled to Canada in hope of asylum. However, the Canadian government is not offering it.

Do you think that it is wrong to tell Army Reserve Soldiers that they need to sign a two year contract, have them fulfill the contract, only to be demanded to return to Iraq a few week later for another 2 weeks?

Do you think that Canada should offer asylum?

If you went to Iraq, saw what was happening, and thought the US was wrong, and refused to go back after fulfilling the contract the Army held you to, is it ethical to resist, to see asylum?

keith99 · #2 9th January 2009, 07:12 PM

This is why you read any contract and look at the worst that can happen. They are not strictly speaking 2 year contracts.

Beanieboy · #3 9th January 2009, 08:48 PM

Did soldiers know that when they signed up?

Strapped for soldiers, the U.S. Army wants new authority to send National Guard and Reserve soldiers back to Iraq for repeat deployments, even those who have already served the maximum time allowed by the Pentagon.

The policy in question limits reservists to 24 months cumulative mobilization on active duty, and they may not be involuntarily deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan more than once. If a reserve soldier is to serve more than that, they must volunteer. The Pentagon's desire is to be even more strict, with active duty service limited to one year out of every six -- that is, a year deployed followed by five years at home, unless a soldier volunteers for additional time. They are not expected to deploy beyond those limits, in deference to their status as citizen-soldiers.

Many active-duty soldiers are deploying every other year, spending less than a year at home with their families in between combat rotations.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/US_A..._Iraq_999.html

Sounds like you are signing up for a 2 year phone plan, and after it expires, they tell you that you are still tied in for another 4 years, and switched your plan after your first year.

Autumnleaf · #4 9th January 2009, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Beanieboy

Did soldiers know that when they signed up?

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/US_A..._Iraq_999.html

Sounds like you are signing up for a 2 year phone plan, and after it expires, they tell you that you are still tied in for another 4 years, and switched your plan after your first year.

No, its a 6 to 8 year plan where you sign your life away. This is all explained in 8th grade level language at the time people sign up. They are told they are subject to the needs of the United States military in defense of America and her interests. Just because people don't want to do their job does not mean they should be able to get out of it. How would you feel if your boss decided not to pay you and fled to Canada to get out of it? Rewarding that type of behavior is a bad idea.

Nihilismus · #5 9th January 2009, 11:01 PM

Just never get involved in the military. Problem solved.

Beanieboy · #6 9th January 2009, 11:36 PM

"The policy in question limits reservists to 24 months cumulative mobilization on active duty, and they may not be involuntarily deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan more than once. If a reserve soldier is to serve more than that, they must volunteer."

24 divided by 12 = 6 to 8? Really?
The soldiers are here because they did their 24 months, and told (not volunteering) to go back after being here for a short time.

The government is breaking the contract.

There are also resisters:
Among those speaking out: 22-year-old skateboarder Darrell Anderson from Kentucky who left the Army, and 20-year-old Ivan Brobeck of Virginia, who deserted the Marines, both after serving in Iraq. Anderson says he joined because he was promised healthcare and college tuition, but in Iraq he says he was ordered to do things he never anticipated, including attacking civilians.

They set up a roadblock with, in Arabic writing that says, "Stop or you'll be shot." This is a third world country. How many people can read? And I was in that situation: The family didn't stop, stopped in front of me. I was ordered to fire. I refused and said, "The window's rolled down." And I said, "Look there's children in the back." There's a family. I did the right thing. They said, "No you didn't. Next time you will open fire or you'll be punished." I'm a 22-year-old kid. Should I go to prison because I can't kill women and children?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/milit...ters_5-25.html

Would it be ethical to shoot? To stay? To continue with a war that you saw first hand, served in, and no longer could support for moral reasons?

Nihilismus · #7 9th January 2009, 11:42 PM

When you agree to carry a rifle and a flag for your country, you lose the right to have principles.

Beanieboy · #8 10th January 2009, 12:01 AM

So, you would shoot civilians, in front of, or including the kids?

Wow.

Autumnleaf · #9 10th January 2009, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Nihilismus

Just never get involved in the military. Problem solved.

If you are poor and want to make a living or go to school its sometimes the best bet. I was both and made the bet. Thankfully it paid off and I got out before stuff hit the fan.

Autumnleaf · #10 10th January 2009, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Beanieboy

So, you would shoot civilians, in front of, or including the kids?

Wow.

He didn't say that and you know it.