Catholic, Cafeteria Catholic, "Protestants Pretending to be Catholic" A Discussion

CaliforniaJosiah · #11 25th December 2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Fantine

too. Maybe the Deacon's favorite Catholics are the inanimate vessel Catholics.

.... actually, they are the only Catholics, he insists. CCC # 87.

The difference between cafeteria Catholics and the inanimate vessel Catholics is that the cafeteria Catholics have the honesty to admit it, share it with others, and discuss it.

I largely agree with that.

I was a "Protestant Hiding in the Church" that came to agree with the RCC far more than nearly all the "Cafeteria Catholics" but I had the honesty to admit that. And leave.

A blessed Christ Mass to you and yours....

Pax

- Josiah

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Andrew B. · #12 26th December 2008, 12:32 AM

I think I'm not going to make a very good Catholic.

Fantine · #13 26th December 2008, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by CaliforniaJosiah

.... actually, they are the only Catholics, he insists. CCC # 87.

I largely agree with that.

I was a "Protestant Hiding in the Church" that came to agree with the RCC far more than nearly all the "Cafeteria Catholics" but I had the honesty to admit that. And leave.

- Josiah

But your testimony--which I sort of skimmed, since I will be leaving for work soon--said you were never actually a member of the Catholic Church, and that your beliefs are closest to Lutheran.

I think that the issues are entirely different for those who were baptized as infants and whose entire family histories are linked to Catholicism.

It's one thing to browse through a neighborhood looking at houses and deciding not to buy there than it is to be born in a house, live there all your life, and decide to leave because you want a house with a built-in swimming pool.

I would love a built-in swimming pool at the moment...but I joined a health club.

The only people who don't belong to "off the rack" religions are those who "custom design" their own. And there may be no off the rack religion that fits me (or you, or anyone) perfectly. But isn't it better to choose one that is a relatively good fit than to run around naked?

neeners · #14 6th January 2009, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Fantine

And I think God does, too. Maybe the Deacon's favorite Catholics are the inanimate vessel Catholics.

No one's faith is perfect. Everyone's faith is tested. The difference between cafeteria Catholics and the inanimate vessel Catholics is that the cafeteria Catholics have the honesty to admit it, share it with others, and discuss it.

Amen Sister!

I don't really like these sorts of homilies where a priest or deacon feels a need to go on the attack of the faithful and start up with pejoratively labeling decent Christians in the pews. It's just mean-spirited in my opinion and often it pushes people out the door.

CaliforniaJosiah · #15 6th January 2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Fantine

But your testimony--which I sort of skimmed, since I will be leaving for work soon--said you were never actually a member of the Catholic Church, and that your beliefs are closest to Lutheran.

I was raised Protestant (not Lutheran); my father is a minister. But he welcomed us kids worshipping elsewhere and learning about other faith communities. I went to a very large, quite fundamentalistic Baptist church many times (I was homeschool through their Day School and they did all awards, graduations, etc. as a part of Sunday worship) and somtimes went to their youth group with friends, and I went to a Catholic Church for about 5 years, almost every week on Saturday nights, with my best friend. I studied Catholicism for all that time. I never was Confirmed in the CC nor officially became registered there (sorry if I implied otherwise).

Yes, I eventually ended up in the Lutheran Church. I was Confirmed Lutheran over a year ago.

I think I was always a "Protestant Hiding in the Church" since I was an inquirer. I studied, asked questions, etc. I came to embrace the GREAT majority of what I learned; as I posted, I ended up agreeing with Catholicism more than most Catholics I know - BUT (and here's the key) because I investigated and found it to be true. THAT is what makes me a noncatholic and a "Protestant Hiding in the Church." A Catholic is one who accepts what the Church says, "with docility." He may ask questions to better understand, but not to evaluate the correctness of what he is told.

But isn't it better to choose one that is a relatively good fit than to run around naked?

LOL, I agree! And that's what I did.

However, I had the honesty to admit that I'm not Catholic in that I don't accept whatever a denomination says "with docility" as the same as Jesus speaking, and thus can't be a Catholic. There's something that bothers me about suggesting I'm something that I'm not. And it seems to ME, the RCC is full of that. I frankly think my Deacon had a valid point. Especially in the light of CCC 87 and so very much more.

Thank you!

Pax

- Josiah

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tz620q · #16 9th January 2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by CaliforniaJosiah

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However, I had the honesty to admit that I'm not Catholic in that I don't accept whatever a denomination says "with docility" as the same as Jesus speaking, and thus can't be a Catholic. There's something that bothers me about suggesting I'm something that I'm not. And it seems to ME, the RCC is full of that. I frankly think my Deacon had a valid point. Especially in the light of CCC 87 and so very much more.

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Interesting topic and one that is certainly well thought out and pertinent within Catholicism. In regards to CCC 87, it is in the section of the Catechism called "God Comes to Meet Man". This section is more on the topic of Divine Revelation and how man can know the meaning of what is revealed. Am I wrong in saying that you do not believe in each individual being their sole authority in interpreting Scripture?

The Magisterium of the Church
85
"The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living, teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86
"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication, and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."

87
Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me,"49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

CaliforniaJosiah · #17 12th January 2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by tz620q

Am I wrong in saying that you do not believe in each individual being their sole authority in interpreting Scripture?

Yes, you are wrong in that assumption.

plmarquette · #18 16th January 2009, 04:00 PM

I am both ....born and raised Catholic 0-42 years old....then I became born again, and embraced the Independant Word Of Faith Message....

for me it is like Paul Harvey .....part of the news, then the rest of the story....
the book, the submission, the respect, and awe...

bbbbbbb · #19 19th February 2009, 03:52 PM

This reminds me of a fellow I heard about in my Catholic home town. He was raised in a devout Catholic family which sent him to a private Catholic men's college in my town. While there, he decided to take a course in Paul's epistles. To his surprise, he discovered that what the priest was teaching was actually contradictory to the text itself. After class one day he asked the priest about the discrepancies. The priest looked at him and asked him,"Do you think you can interpret scripture for yourself?" He thought a moment and said, "Yes," Then the priest said, "Well, you can't be a Catholic, then." He responded, "Well, I guess I'm not." He then went through the painful process of leaving the Catholic Church and having to explain things to his family.

Izdaari · #20 22nd February 2009, 04:26 PM

I can totally relate to what Josiah is saying. Many of the Christian writers I love are Catholic. I very much admire the Dominican and Jesuit intellectual approach to theology, and the Catholic mystical tradition. I agree with the Catholic Church on quite a lot. I fully accept the Catholic Church as a valid part of Christianity, and its members as my Christian brethren.

But I have never been Catholic and almost certainly never will be. I do insist on being able to interpret scripture for myself, with a little help from above on the hard parts. If I were to be Catholic, I'd be one of those 'Protestants hiding in the Catholic Church'. I could be Anglican, maybe even Anglo-Catholic, but that'd be as far as I could go.