Focused discussion--Are the Sabbaths of Col 2 weekly or yearly?
I am asking that we consider one very specific topic in this thread--which sabbaths are being discussed in Col. 2:16?
I am not necessarily even interested in this thread in the overall interpretation of the passage, or the meaning of meat, drink etc. I am just wanting to try, if possible, to determine whether the sabbaths in col. 2 are weekly or yearly.
In the course of looking at that aspect there may be some interpretive work of the passage, context, etc., and that is fine. But please keep the topic on track. The main goal is to see what kind of Sabbath is indicated.
This is not a general debate about whether the Sabbath is to be kept or not. Save that for another thread please.
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Last edited by tall73; 13th December 2008 at 04:43 AM.
I personally have held both positions at different points in my life. Currently I believe the text is talking about the weekly Sabbath.
Here is the Greek for the sentence:
Col 2:16 Μὴ οὖν τις ὑμᾶς κρινέτω ἐν βρώσει ἢ ἐν πόσει ἢ ἐν μέρει ἑορτῆς ἢ νεομηνίας ἢ σαββάτων,
Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Here are the reasons for my current position.
a. The term σαββατων, in the form it appears in Col. 2 can be used for the weekly sabbath. Notice for instance its use in the commandment itself:
Exo 20:8 μνήσθητι τὴν ἡμέραν τῶν σαββάτων ἁγιάζειν αὐτήν. Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
b. The Yearly, Monthly, Weekly progression shows that the weekly Sabbath is in mind. There is no need to mention the yearly again as the "feast" takes in the yearly, ceremonial sabbaths.
So you have:
Yearly-feasts, (including the ceremonial Sabbaths)
Monthly-New Moon
Weekly-Sabbath
c. The term for feast in Col. 2 is ἑορτῆς.
Col 2:16 Μὴ οὖν τις ὑμᾶς κρινέτω ἐν βρώσει ἢ ἐν πόσει ἢ ἐν μέρει ἑορτῆς ἢ νεομηνίας ἢ σαββάτων,
That term is used in Lev. 23 for all of the holy days of the Lord, including the ceremonial sabbaths:
Lev 23:4 "These are the appointed feasts of the LORD, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them.
The text then goes on to lists the holy days, including the cermonial sabbaths. Therefore in the text in Col. the ceremonial sabbaths are included in the term for feast and the weekly sabbath is indicated by the term σαββάτων.
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I am not necessarily even interested in this thread in the overall interpretation of the passage, or the meaning of meat, drink etc. I am just wanting to try, if possible, to determine whether the sabbaths in col. 2 are weekly or yearly.
All sabbath days are only a 'shadow of things to come' (v17), so I don't think the sabbaths of/in Col 2 applies to either weekly or yearly.....OR.....it applies to both weekly and yearly!
Beyond that, v21-23 describes what is going to 'perish' --- the commandments and doctrines of men, which includes the 'shadow of things to come' -- when the real thing comes, the 'shadow' ceases to exist!
Yearly feast days of Lev 23 are being referenced since they are the "predictive" Sabbaths -- the shaddows pointing forward to an event "to be fulfilled". As vs 17 of Col 2 point out "shaddows of things to come" -- this is the role of "predictive laws" -- the types given to point to some future event.
And so we have in 1 Cor 5 "Christ our Passover has been slain".
The "prescriptive law" of the Ten commandments contains a "memorial Sabbath" that looks back to Christ our Creator's work in creating mankind. This idea of "looking back" to derive imperative for worship continues as we see in Rev 14.
Interestingly Rev 14 continues that "worship him our creator" concept saying "Worship Him who made...".
It is interesting that Matthew Henry, John Wesley, Adam Clarke and D.L Moody appear to conclude that this is not the moral law -- but rather the ceremonial law ending at the cross.
However they also seem to get the point about the "certificate of debt" being that which is the condemnation of the moral law -- the debt that Christ paid for us.
Yearly feast days of Lev 23 are being referenced since they are the "predictive" Sabbaths -- the shaddows pointing forward to an event "to be fulfilled". As vs 17 of Col 2 point out "shaddows of things to come" -- this is the role of "predictive laws" -- the types given to point to some future event.
The Sabbath stood for both a memorial of creation and of redemption. The Deuteronomy version of the commandment commemorated release from Egypt.
Moreover in Hebrews the fulfillment of God's rest was the rest of salvation which we enter into "today" and will be fully realized in the new earth.
But a larger problem for your view is that the feasts are clearly already referenced earlier in the verse.
A feast a newmoon or a sabbath.
yearly monthly weekly
The term for feast is the very term used to describe everything in Lev. 23.
And so we have in 1 Cor 5 "Christ our Passover has been slain".''
Indeed, and we also have a forward looking application of the passover yet to come:
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
However the passover is clearly included in the yearly items under the heading of "feast".
The sabbath also looks forward
It is interesting that Matthew Henry, John Wesley, Adam Clarke and D.L Moody appear to conclude that this is not the moral law -- but rather the ceremonial law ending at the cross.
However they also seem to get the point about the "certificate of debt" being that which is the condemnation of the moral law -- the debt that Christ paid for us.
Are you now referring to verse 14? That is outside the scope of this particular study, other than as a possible aid in understanding the overall thrust, but I would say the evidence is on the side of the certificate of debt view--Jesus forgave us all our sins.
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And on the other subject, how are we sinners without the law? (I don't mean the law as was handed to Moses, Paul and others have already pointed out that it is the same law that people naturally follow (some parts better then others, and most not the Sabbath)).
I had been holding it back because I wanted to see what people would post. I am not a scholar of the greek/etc.
But I really love the Sabbath, just as a break from work. All the rest of the week I am working (or doing something else that needs doing) or feeling guilty about not working. Only on the Sabbath hours can I take a guilt free break from my work. And that is important to me. Also, I am not as good as some of the people here with Bible study and praise, I find that having a weekly reminder to be very important (and it negatively effects things when I miss, which is too often). I do admit that for both of these things, the day doesn't seem to matter, Sunday would work just as well as Saturday.
Verse 16 Let no man-judge you in meat, or in drink
The apostle speaks here in reference to some particulars of the hand-writing of ordinances, which had been taken away, viz., the distinction of meats and drinks, what was clean and what unclean, according to the law; and the necessity of observing certain holydays or festivals, such as the new moons and particular sabbaths, or those which should be observed with more than ordinary solemnity; all these had been taken out of the way and nailed to the cross, and were no longer of moral obligation. There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity
I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbathday, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come. Besides, it is not clear that the apostle refers at all to the Sabbath in this place, whether Jewish or Christian; his σαββατων, of sabbaths or weeks, most probably refers to their feasts of weeks, of which much has been said in the notes on the Pentateuch.
Last edited by BobRyan; 13th December 2008 at 01:02 AM.
16. therefore--because ye are complete in Christ, and God in Him has dispensed with all subordinate means as essential to acceptance with Him.
meat . . . drink--Greek, "eating . . . drinking" (Ro 14:1-17). Pay no regard to any one who sits in judgment on you as to legal observances in respect to foods.
holyday--a feast yearly. Compare the three, 1Ch 23:31.
new moon--monthly.
the sabbath--Omit "THE," which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Ga 4:10). "SABBATHS" (not "the sabbaths") of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Le 23:32, 37-39).
The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Le 23:38 expressly distinguished "the sabbath of the Lord" from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb 4:9, "rests," Greek, "keeping of sabbath" (Isa 66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Ro 13:8-10).[/font]
Clarke himself says that the Sabbath points forward to the rest to come. Remember the text is speaking of shadows of things to come.
But Clarke really is not on your side in any case. Notice what he says about Rev. 1:
Verse 10. I was in the Spirit] That is, I received the Spirit of prophecy, and was under its influence when the first vision was exhibited.
The Lord's day] The first day of the week, observed as the ChristianSabbath, because on it JesusChrist rose from the dead; therefore it was called the Lord's day, and has taken place of the JewishSabbath throughout the Christianworld.
He thought that Sunday took over the Sabbath rest.
As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come.
If we follow this advice then you should still be keeping the feast of booths ,etc.
As a product of his time he thought Sunday was a binding Christian sabbath which is the reason for him allowing it to continue.
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