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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #11  
Old 29th November 2003, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by revolutio
Hmm, this already got off on a bad foot with me. Anyone who thinks that additional exclamation marks or use of capitalization lends credence to their views is poorly mistaken.
Note also the tendency to rant about the 'evolutionist' witholding information and such.
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  #12  
Old 29th November 2003, 07:38 PM
Evolution =/= atheism

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It seems to be that he is saying "sure! there are vertebrate transitions, but that's it! nothing else evolved!"
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  #13  
Old 29th November 2003, 07:42 PM
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Anyone have reference links? Where's lucaspa with his magic bottle o' links?
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  #14  
Old 29th November 2003, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by either an idiot or a liar
Whenever an evolutionist presents his line of evidence for evolution in the fossil record, he will without fail, virtually every time, present a vertebrate transitional fossil.
Ask a person to name an animal and you will probably get a mammal, or possible a bird or reptile. (Case in point, ask me and you will get either a llama or a duck). Vertebrates are usually used as transitional because the bone structures are well known. Everyone knows what a bird or mammal skeleton looks like, so the gradual changes are easy to see. Invertebrate fossils look wierd and alien, so the changes are harder to see to a layperson. It is for this reason that the vertebrate fossils are chosen as the 'standard' fossils.
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  #15  
Old 29th November 2003, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bushido216
Anyone have reference links? Where's lucaspa with his magic bottle o' links?
One to start you off: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC211.html

The ICC is a very useful resource, incidentally. One of the few sites I have bookmarked.
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  #16  
Old 29th November 2003, 07:50 PM
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Well, I stopped reading when he typed all in CAPS, but anyway, seems like standard BS.

The standard argument that if evolution were true we should see thousands of fossils everywhere. He conviently ignores the fact that fossilization is a rare occurance and thus the lack of tons of fossils (all though we have many) is evidence that fossilization events were rare.
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  #17  
Old 29th November 2003, 08:21 PM
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Wow, that indexcc thing is... excellent.

Wow.
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  #18  
Old 29th November 2003, 09:34 PM
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Well, the Subphylum Vertebrata is not among the most poplulated, and will probably make up a correspondingly smaller portion of the fossil record. I find 99.9% a little hard to believe, however.

A nitpick, in any case - I believe the better defining characteristic of Vertebrata is the presence of a cranial case. Some members, e.g. lampreys, hagfish, have only rudimentary cartilaginous support structures, hence the presence of a well-developed notochord.
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  #19  
Old 29th November 2003, 09:41 PM
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In english?
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  #20  
Old 29th November 2003, 09:48 PM
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The overwhelming majority of vertebrates have backbone-structures made of cartilage or bone. A few, however, do not. They all do have a cranial case, cartilage or bone, which is why I consider that a better defining characteristic. Thus, the name "vertebrate" is a slight misnomer, but not enough to raise heck about.

FYI, those that don't have true backbones have a notochord, which is a rod, similar in structure to cartilage, that runs parallel to the spinal cord. All members of Phylum Chordata have a notochord at some point during development. Humans have one in early embryonic stages. Eventually, it forms parts of what you probably know as the intervertebral discs.
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