Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (Christians Only) > Theology > Christian History > Patristics
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Patristics Patristics is the study of early Christian writers, known as the Church Fathers.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 1st December 2008, 05:02 AM
Nazaroo's Avatar
Joseph is still alive! (Gen 45.26)

51 Gender: Male Faith: Christian Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 5th December 2005
Location: clinging to Jesus sandalstrap
Posts: 2,428
Blessings: 29,068
My Mood Inspired
Reps: 5,306,813,870,308 (power: 5,306,813,876)
Nazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond repute
Nazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond reputeNazaroo has a reputation beyond repute
Gospel of Judas' true colors: Jewish witchcraft

Those Christian scholars familiar with the apocryphal Gospel of Judas and its gnostic/antiCatholic undercurrents will not be surprised to find out that the real situation in the 2nd century Mediterranean was actually far 'worse' than the happy-face images that the National Geographic specials and other pop media blitzes present.

So the latest "gothic" revelation from one of the key liberal scholars on Christian pseudo-gospels, April DeConick.

DeConick is the author of several books on flakey Christian forgeries, which we won't list here, (since she advertizes her books loudly on her blogsite).

One book, The Thirteenth Apostle (i.e. Judas), is due for re-release with 2 new chapters on the following "discovery", that of an underground cult of "Judas worshippers" who were obviously deeply involved in the Occult and what could only be classed today as 'satanism' and 'witchcraft'.

Discussing the recent SBL conference on her blogsite, (a conference not surprisingly dominated by Bart Ehrman, the notorious atheist who has spent the last two years undermining the Bible on public TV and radio, see our report here:
http://adultera.awardspace.com/DUMB/Ehrmin.html ) DeConick has summarized her own presentation on 'Judas witchcraft':


"What did I do? Well I revealed the mysteries - where my research has gone since I published The Thirteenth Apostle. There were three things I discussed -all of which will be included in the revised edition of The Thirteenth Apostle coming out in March (two new full chapters - "Judas the Star", and "The Magical Judas") plus corrections of errors and a section on Thomasine Christianity in the chapter on the second century landscape of early Christianity.

First, I discovered that the portraits of the lion-headed serpent Ialdabaoth were largely influenced by a popular decan god in Greco-Egyptian magic and astrology. His name was Chnoubis and in the Hellenistic lists of 36 decans he appears as the 13th! I need to say no more.

Second, I discussed the scene where Jesus tells the strongest of the disciples to lead forward the Perfect Man, and Judas accepts. I asked the question, who is the Perfect Man in Sethianism?

The answer: Autogenes or his Son, the Son of Man; who is the Christ in Sethian Christianity. If this is the case, then Judas is accepting the role of leading forward Jesus as the Son of Man.

This is essentially a Gnostic exegesis of Mark's last supper scene when Jesus says that the Son of Man will go forward as it is written of him. Then he predicts that one of the twelve will betray him. There is much more to the exegesis, but it is all I have time to write tonight.

Third, I showed an antique gem (ca. first or second c. CE) that my student Grant Adamson had come across in a catalogue he was working through for his own research on Gnostic magic. The gem shows the lion-headed astral god on one side with the hidden angel names in coded anagrams: Michael and Elieli.

This lion-headed astral god goes by various names on these gems: IAO, Abrasax, Michael, Chnoubis, and Ialdabaoth. The idea behind the gem is that the owner possesses the god's names and can command the god to do whatever he desires for the god to do for him. The most secret and important name of the god often shows up on the back of the gem, in the center of the gem's face.

At the end of my presentation - I made the audience wait until the last minute of my 30-minute talk to discover the name that has been hidden for 2000 years - to flip over the gem. And on the back centered in the gem's face is the name JUDAS.

So now we have material evidence that there were people in the ancient world who identified Judas with Ialdabaoth the demon astral ruler, just as the Gospel of Judas says.

This appears to have been a well-kept Gnostic secret that was believed to be very powerful. Knowing the demon's real name meant that the amulet-wearer could control the highest of the archons in this life and the afterlife!

Because I don't have copyright, I cannot post a photo of the gem. But I am working on buying copyright to have it in the revised edition of the paperback edition of my book. It is something to see! When Grant showed it to me, I almost fell out of my chair. The audience audibly gasped when they saw it.

So that's my story. Will post more on SBL 2008 when I get a chance. These next few weeks are going to be very busy. But I will do my best.

Posted by April DeConick
http://forbiddengospels.blogspot.com/

We make the following comments:

Its one thing to thoroughly research an area of archaeology or ancient culture. But over emphasis and a morbid fascination with the occult is obviously unhealthy, and actually glorifying this garbage is way out there.

But that is the net effect in this modern academic culture of "no fault" comparative religion, in which we are supposed to stay utterly neutral and 'politically correct' while observing various idiots and cults, from the human sacrifices of the Aztecs to the child burnings of NorthEast Africa and the Mediterranean.

What is disappointing, but not surprising, is that DeConick seems to see nothing 'wrong' or unhealthy in either the behaviour of ancient idiots who cherished the gospel of Judas, or the modern happy-go-lucky fascination with their obviously sick mental states and practices.
__________________
"Neither do I judge thee. Sin no more." (Jn 8:11)
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 3rd December 2008, 12:42 AM
BeforeTheFoundation's Avatar
Regular Member

22 Gender: Male Faith: Presbyterian Party: US-Democrat Country: United States Member For 1 Years
 
Join Date: 20th January 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 648
Blessings: 27,920
Reps: 118,126,841 (power: 118,128)
BeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond repute
BeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond repute
Discussing the recent SBL conference on her blogsite, (a conference not surprisingly dominated by Bart Ehrman, the notorious atheist who has spent the last two years undermining the Bible on public TV and radio, see our report here:
As a member of SBL and someone that attended the most recent conference, I find it a little odd that you think that the entire conference that included literally thousands of presentations from hundreds of different Universities from around the world was dominated by one man, least of all Ehrman, who quite honestly is barely a blip on the radar of biblical studies (yes, his work on Gnosticism has been 'important', but as you so aptly point out can sometimes be a little crazy).

But that is the net effect in this modern academic culture of "no fault" comparative religion, in which we are supposed to stay utterly neutral and 'politically correct' while observing various idiots and cults, from the human sacrifices of the Aztecs to the child burnings of NorthEast Africa and the Mediterranean.
As someone actively involved "in this modern academci culture" I was unaware that I was supposed to neutral about human sacrifices.

Oh, wait, academics judge culture all the time, yes, we are fascinated by ancient culture. But, would you accuse someone fascinated by batting averages of endorsing steriod use? Likewise, just because we are obsessed by ancient culture does not mean that we endorse all the terrible things that these cultures did.

As far as DeConick goes, unfortunately, though I am aware of her retranslation and her claim that Ehrman's was faulty, I have not had a chance to look into her specific claims and I do not read Coptic so I wouldn't be able to check their respective translations anyway. (Gnosticism is an interest of mine, but not a specialty). But I can say this, I would think long and hard before I would apply the term 'witchcraft' to any of the myriad groups of Gnostics. They certainly were crazy and some of them certainly believed in magical ideas, but the term witchcraft gives modern readers the impression of magic wands, boils on peoples' noses, frogs, culdrons, the Salem Witch Trials, and Harry Potter. These are not at all the types of things that the Gnostics were into (again, they believed some pretty wacky things, but they were not similar to what modern people think of as witchcraft).

Also, her claim that this group of Gnostics actually worchiped Judas seems a little off. Again, I have not actually read her research, but this just doesn't sound Gnostic. There were many different groups of Gnostics with many different beliefs, but one thing they had in common was that they all hated the physical world including their own bodies (this lead some to asceticism and others to indulging their bodies every want). We can actually see this in the Gospel of Judas when Jesus speaks of shedding his body so that his spirit could be free. In other Gnostic accounts Jesus isn't even thought of as having a body because he was so holy that he couldn't have been entombed in evil flesh. So, my question is: why would a bunch of Gnostics want to worship a man. A man that notably was not the teacher that is from the divine realm of Pleroma (sort of like the Gnostic view of heaven. That isn't entirely true, but I could write an entire paper on what exactly pleroma is and probably not cover even 1% of the information).

So the Gnostics worshiped Judas, just a man (an enlightened man, yes, but a man nonetheless) with an evil physical body that throughout at least the first half of the Gospel of Judas is portrayed as not understanding anything that the messenger from pleroma (Jesus) is saying. Again, I haven't read her evidence, but I find this extremely difficult to believe.

Well, anyway, that was my two cents on Gnosticism.
__________________
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"I do not preach universal salvation, what I say is that I cannot exclude the possibility that God would save all men at the Judgment." ~Karl Barth

"It is the job of prophets and scientists alike to proclaim the glories of God" ~ Louis Agassiz



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 3rd December 2008, 10:11 PM
BeforeTheFoundation's Avatar
Regular Member

22 Gender: Male Faith: Presbyterian Party: US-Democrat Country: United States Member For 1 Years
 
Join Date: 20th January 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 648
Blessings: 27,920
Reps: 118,126,841 (power: 118,128)
BeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond repute
BeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond reputeBeforeTheFoundation has a reputation beyond repute
I just noticed this. I don't think that this thread should be under Patristics. If I could humbly suggest that a mod move it elsewhere?
__________________
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"I do not preach universal salvation, what I say is that I cannot exclude the possibility that God would save all men at the Judgment." ~Karl Barth

"It is the job of prophets and scientists alike to proclaim the glories of God" ~ Louis Agassiz



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Patristics

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:24 AM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios