Is the bible sexist??

QuakerOats · #21 30th November 2008, 11:19 PM

The bible reflects the time and culture of its authors; all patriarchal in nature. In reading it through, we can clearly see that although some authors, or societies featured within held women to a higher esteem then others, women were still generally seen as inferior to men in one form or another. Thus, my answer is yes, the bible is sexist in that it reflects the overall sexist attitudes of the times.

Washington · #22 30th November 2008, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

Read it in the original and then we will talk. Its written as a result of action - the only one which was cursed was the serpent

I didn't think you could explain. Thanks for not disappointing.

As to your second concern - I wasnt posting to you was I or are you darkprophet?

I don't really care. I was posting to you. Of course I do recognize why you've replied as you have---some people have a hard time admitting they've messed up, even a little. You have my sympathy.

Angel4Truth · #23 30th November 2008, 11:38 PM

Genesis 3:16:

|0802| the woman
|0559| He said,
|7235| greatly
|7235| increase
|6093| sorrow
|2032| conception
|6089| toil
|8085| you will give birth to
|1121| sons.
|0413| And
|0376| your husband
|8669| your desire will be,
|1931| and he
|4910| will rule
|4427| over you.

Where does this state its punishment or condemnation? Sorrow usually follows sin especially to one who had brought it into the world and sorrow is what she got - one of her sons killed the other - results of sin.

In the verse to the serpent condemnation is given -but not done to eve or adam - the results of their sin are whats told to them but the serpent was directly condemned.

14.
|0559| Then said
|3068| Yahweh
|0430| God
|0413| to
|5175| the snake,
|3588| Because
|6213| you have done
|2063| this,
|0779| condemned
|0859| you {are},
|3605| more than all
|0929| animals
|3605| and more than any other
|2416| animal of
|7704| the field.
|5921| On
|1502| your belly
|1988| you will go.
|6083| And dust
|0398| you must eat
|8605| all
|3117| the days of
|2416| your life.

Angel4Truth · #24 30th November 2008, 11:40 PM

Sin has conquences in life. Even an atheist can understand that if someone wrongs them and apologises the effects of the wrong can linger well beyond the wrong done and forgiveness given.

MissBabylon · #25 1st December 2008, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by QuakerOats

The bible reflects the time and culture of its authors; all patriarchal in nature. In reading it through, we can clearly see that although some authors, or societies featured within held women to a higher esteem then others, women were still generally seen as inferior to men in one form or another. Thus, my answer is yes, the bible is sexist in that it reflects the overall sexist attitudes of the times.

What she said.

The Old Testament in particular is sexist, but also the New Testament is written for a male audience.

LJSGM · #26 1st December 2008, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Washington

Sure, but first the definition.
Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: sex·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: 1sex + -ism (as in racism)
Date: 1968

1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex ; especially : discrimination against women

Now the Bible verses:
Genesis 3:16
16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

(Women will be ruled by men)

Good, now to get my hands dirty. This one was already covered.

1 Corinthians 11:3

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

(Head of every woman is the man)

In context, Head means source. If it meant authority, then it would have been listed in order. To confirm this here is a verse.

11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.



Ephesians 5:22 - 25

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

(Wives must submit themselves to their husband, afterall he is the head of the wife)

The problem is that submit does not mean "to obey." Here is the verse that begins this series.

21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Obviously, we do not "obey" one another.

Also the verses that sum up this series: 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.



Colossians 3:18

18. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

(Wives submit to their husband -- the Lord expects it)

Once again, submit does not mean "to obey," notice that children are "to obey" their parents in the following verses.



Titus 2:3 - 5

3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

(Women to obey their own husbands)

It doesn't say "obedient," it says "subject" to their own husbands. That could mean anything ranging from sexually faithful, to respectful of their husbands.

1Pe 5:5
Likewise 3668, ye younger 3501, submit yourselves 5293 (5649) unto the elder 4245. Yea 1161, all 3956 [of you] be subject 5293 (5746) one to another 240, and be clothed 1463 (5663) with humility 5012: for 3754 God 2316 resisteth 498 (5731) the proud 5244, and 1161 giveth 1325 (5719) grace 5485 to the humble 5011.

Here's a nice verse.

Galatians 3
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Washington · #27 1st December 2008, 01:52 PM

RE:Genesis 3:16

Originally Posted by LJSGM

Good, now to get my hands dirty. This one was already covered.

You're not talking about Angel4Truth's post are you? Please say no.

_____________________
RE:1 Corinthians 11:3

In context, Head means source. If it meant authority, then it would have been listed in order.

Okay then let's substitute and see where your interpretation takes us.

"3 But I would have you know, that the [source] of every man is Christ; and the [source] of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God."

Make sense to you that while the source of every man is Christ, the source of the woman [is] the man? Besides, the word "head" here is a translation of κεφαλή (kephalē), which means:

metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent
a) of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife <- NOTE
b) of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church
c) of things: the corner stone

__________________

RE: Eph 5:22-25

The problem is that submit does not mean "to obey." Here is the verse that begins this series.
21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Obviously, we do not "obey" one another.
Also the verses that sum up this series: 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Sorry, but you utterly failed to prove your assertion. Simply saying, "The problem is that submit does not mean "to obey." does not make it true.
____________________

RE: Colossians 3:18

Once again, submit does not mean "to obey," notice that children are "to obey" their parents in the following verses.

As much as you might like this to be true, it's not.
"Submit" here derives from ὑποτάσσω (hypotassō) which means:

1) to arrange under, to subordinate
2) to subject, put in subjection
3) to subject one's self, obey
4) to submit to one's control
5) to yield to one's admonition or advice
6) to obey, be subject

______________

RE:Titus 2:3 - 5

It doesn't say "obedient," it says "subject" to their own husbands. That could mean anything ranging from sexually faithful, to respectful of their husbands.

Well the Amplified Bible uses the word, " subordinating," and the NLT uses "submissive," and the KJV uses "obedient," the ESV use "submissive," the NCV uses "yield," and the ASV uses, "Being in subjection to."

LJSGM · #28 1st December 2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Washington

RE:Genesis 3:16

You're not talking about Angel4Truth's misguided post are you? Please say no.

_____________________
RE:1 Corinthians 11:3

Okay then let's substitute and see where your silly interpretation takes us.
"3 But I would have you know, that the [source] of every man is Christ; and the [source] of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God."

Make sense to you that while the source of every man is Christ, the source of the woman [is] the man? Yeah, sure. That's pathetic, LJSGM. Besides, the word "head" here is a translation of κεφαλή (kephalē), which means:
metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent
a) of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife <- NOTE
b) of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church
c) of things: the corner stone

__________________

RE: Eph 5:22-25
Sorry, but you utterly failed to prove your assertion. Simply saying, "The problem is that submit does not mean "to obey." does not make it true.
____________________

RE: Colossians 3:18

As much as you might like this to be true, it's not.
"Submit" here derives from ὑποτάσσω (hypotassō) which means:
1) to arrange under, to subordinate
2) to subject, put in subjection
3) to subject one's self, obey
4) to submit to one's control
5) to yield to one's admonition or advice
6) to obey, be subject

______________

RE:Titus 2:3 - 5

Well the Amplified Bible uses the word, " subordinating," and the NLT uses "submissive," and the KJV uses "obedient," the ESV use "submissive," the NCV uses "yield," and the ASV uses, "Being in subjection to." Get the idea?

Because you were so rude, I'm not going to bother with replying.

LJSGM · #29 1st December 2008, 02:14 PM

anyone else want to discuss?

jayem · #30 1st December 2008, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by LJSGM

anyone else want to discuss?

According to the OT, a woman who gives birth to son is considered "unclean" for 7 days, and must wait 33 days before going to the sanctuary and being "purified." But if she gives birth to a daughter, she's unclean for 14 days, and must wait 66 days for purification.

Anyone have a rational explanation?

"1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding..." Leviticus 12.