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  #31  
Unread 14th December 2008, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
So, I'm too smart for my own good? When did reliance on intelligence become a problem?
Reliance on intelligence becomes a problem when the mind takes off on its own rather than being controlled and guided by the Heart and the Holy Spirit therein dwelling. This is the same grave mistake at the center of our forebears' seeking the "knowledge of good and evil" on their own, apart from God, rather than seeking Truth within through a direct connection with God in their Hearts.

Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
Okay, I get it. No intelligence allowed in Christianity. Thanks, but I'll pass.
No--you don't "get it", and have admitted as much--that being the reason for your OP--is that not correct? You are not "wired differently". Your difficulty is that you have not allowed yourself to be re-wired so that your self-described "over intellectualizing," which you "can't get beyond" in reaching out for God, is controlled by your Heart--a Heart tuned in to God and getting its input directly from the Source of all Truth, rather than directly from your unaided and uncontrolled mind which can only falsely claim to understand anything about "truth." Only with God in control is any real intelligence possible.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim
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Lo, i have gathered up all of my thoughts and cannot recall anything good before Thee . . .
except the fact that i know no other God than Thee.

--Saint Ephraim the Syrian
LORD JESUS CHRIST, HUMBLE LAMB OF GOD, have mercy on me, an arrogant sinner!

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  #32  
Unread 14th December 2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ephraimanesti View Post
Reliance on intelligence becomes a problem when the mind takes off on its own rather than being controlled and guided by the Heart and the Holy Spirit therein dwelling. This is the same grave mistake at the center of our forebears' seeking the "knowledge of good and evil" on their own, apart from God, rather than seeking Truth within through a direct connection with God in their Hearts.
I think we're at an impasse here. Saying that reliance on intelligence is a grave mistake doesn't compute with me. Appreciate your help, however.


Originally Posted by ephraimanesti View Post
No--you don't "get it", and have admitted as much--that being the reason for your OP--is that not correct? You are not "wired differently". Your difficulty is that you have not allowed yourself to be re-wired so that your self-described "over intellectualizing," which you "can't get beyond" in reaching out for God, is controlled by your Heart--a Heart tuned in to God and getting its input directly from the Source of all Truth, rather than directly from your unaided and uncontrolled mind which can only falsely claim to understand anything about "truth." Only with God in control is any real intelligence possible.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim
If I'm not wired differently, why do I need to be re-wired? That's a contradiction.

Again, thanks for your help anyways...

Last edited by trustgod; 15th December 2008 at 07:30 AM.
  #33  
Unread 14th December 2008, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
I think we're at an impasse here. Saying that reliance on intelligence is a grave mistake doesn't compute with me. Appreciate your help, however.
You, yourself, diagnosed this as the root of your problem in being unable to touch God. All i am is a mirror. Were you not seeking answers, why ask questions?

Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
If I'm not wired differently, why do I need to be re-wired? That's a contradiction.
My point was that we are all initially "wired" the same, and you are not "wired" any "differently" than the rest of us--prior to our new Birth into the Kingdom. All human beings since the rebellion in the Garden attempt to use their brains to process their "knowledge of good and evil." Unfortunately, the brain being merely a computer, operates on the principle of "Garbage in--garbage out." Thus the chaotic dying world we inhabit today. Our "knowledge of good and evil" is killing us--physically, mentally, emotionally, and, most importantly, Spiritually--as you appear well aware.

Salvation from this trap consists of "re-wiring" so that the Heart controls the brain, not the other way around. That is why God promises, "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."(Ezekiel 36:26-27) THAT is what you are missing and, hopefully seeking. Shooting the messenger doesn't change the message.


Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
Again, thanks for your help anyways...
Help?

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF MY LORD CHRIST,
ephraim
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Lo, i have gathered up all of my thoughts and cannot recall anything good before Thee . . .
except the fact that i know no other God than Thee.

--Saint Ephraim the Syrian
LORD JESUS CHRIST, HUMBLE LAMB OF GOD, have mercy on me, an arrogant sinner!

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  #34  
Unread 15th December 2008, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
When did reliance on intelligence become a problem?
Never, quite frankly.

Intelligence is not the problem. Authority is. That's what ephraim is driving at, and quite rightly. From the garden in Eden to our 21st century society, our attitude of 'autonomy' has been the problem, i.e., looking to ourselves as the crucial arbiter of truth, meaning, purpose, etc. Adam and Eve did it, and mankind is still doing it today.

Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
Okay, I get it. No intelligence allowed in Christianity. Thanks, but I'll pass.
I think you know that's incredibly unfair.
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  #35  
Unread 15th December 2008, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryft View Post

Never, quite frankly.

Intelligence is not the problem. Authority is. That's what ephraim is driving at, and quite rightly. From the garden in Eden to our 21st century society, our attitude of 'autonomy' has been the problem, i.e., looking to ourselves as the crucial arbiter of truth, meaning, purpose, etc. Adam and Eve did it, and mankind is still doing it today.
Authority is very different from intelligence. Why didn't he just say authority, instead of insulting my intelligence by implying that I have to check my brain at the door before I will "get it?"



Originally Posted by Ryft View Post
I think you know that's incredibly unfair.
He implied that intelligence, i.e., using one's brain, was not compatible with Christianity. At least that's how it came across to me. I think you know that's incredibly wrong.

Last edited by trustgod; 15th December 2008 at 07:41 AM.
  #36  
Unread 15th December 2008, 07:37 AM
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  #37  
Unread 15th December 2008, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ephraimanesti View Post
You, yourself, diagnosed this as the root of your problem in being unable to touch God. All i am is a mirror. Were you not seeking answers, why ask questions?
Nope. I never said intelligence was a problem, nor the root of my problem. I merely said I am more of a logical person than an emotional person.


Originally Posted by ephraimanesti View Post
My point was that we are all initially "wired" the same, and you are not "wired" any "differently" than the rest of us--prior to our new Birth into the Kingdom. All human beings since the rebellion in the Garden attempt to use their brains to process their "knowledge of good and evil." Unfortunately, the brain being merely a computer, operates on the principle of "Garbage in--garbage out."
Garbage in, garbage out is not a "principle" of a computer. It merely predicts the output given a certain set of inputs.

Originally Posted by ephraimanesti View Post
Help?
I was merely trying to be nice...
  #38  
Unread 15th December 2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
Nope. I never said intelligence was a problem, nor the root of my problem. I merely said I am more of a logical person than an emotional person.
MY BROTHER: According to the world's view of things, is not "logic" a by-product of "intelligence?"

The way you use these tools appears to fall into the category of "straining at gnats and swallowing camels"(Matthew 23:24) which indeed is a huge stumbling block on the road to personal, hands-on, experiental knowledge of a God Who IS Love--a Love which is in no way, shape, or form "logical" in any sense of the word that we humans would be able to understand given our poor "understanding" of the word "love".

Incidentially, a Loving face-to-face Father-child relationship with our Living/Agapao-ing/ desperately-and-eagerly-awaiting-our-return/ Heavenly Father has absolutely nothing to do with "emotions," in the same way that Spiritual Love (the only Love which has any real meaning and significance above and beyond the level of animals)--AGAPE--has nothing to do with our emotions.


Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
Garbage in, garbage out is not a "principle" of a computer. It merely predicts the output given a certain set of inputs.
Principle of computer USAGE, then. Seems to me the point remains, word games being stationary and disallowing progress and all.

Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
I was merely trying to be nice...
i do appreciate that. Hopefully, some of it will rub off on me.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF MY LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim
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Lo, i have gathered up all of my thoughts and cannot recall anything good before Thee . . .
except the fact that i know no other God than Thee.

--Saint Ephraim the Syrian
LORD JESUS CHRIST, HUMBLE LAMB OF GOD, have mercy on me, an arrogant sinner!

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Last edited by ephraimanesti; 15th December 2008 at 11:19 AM.
  #39  
Unread 17th December 2008, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by trustgod View Post
Authority is very different from intelligence. Why didn't he just say authority, instead of insulting my intelligence by implying that I have to check my brain at the door before I will "get it?"
I think you simply misunderstood him. Your native tongue is English. His native tongue is Christianese. For him, English is a second language. And he is transcribing into English ideas that are communicated fluently in Christianese; it makes perfect sense to him because these ideas make perfect sense in his native tongue. Me, I'm bilingual; I speak both languages fluently. I know exactly what he's getting at because I'm fluent in Christianese, and I know how to translate that coherently into English so you understand it (as I had done above).

I am describing the issue metaphorically, of course. I'm using "English" as a metaphor for "secular language that non-believers understand." And Christianese is a metaphor for "gospel language that believers understand." I'm pretty sure you understand what I am getting at.
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  #40  
Unread 20th December 2008, 01:46 AM
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TrustGod,

Faith comes by hearing the Word

When a person puts thier faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, they recieve the Holy Spirit.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The "water" spoken of in this passage is the Holy Spirit. A man must have the Holy Spirit to be an heir with Christ. The Holy Spirit is Gods seal on the believer. You may have books in you library that you stamp with you name, this is you "seal" because the book is yours. Yahweh seals his own with the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

No Spirit, No relationship
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" As I see the developments all around, I burn with jealousy for the truth we have. It makes us, in its practice, a people rejected by all, but who have the bread that all need."
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A man isn't a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner. Thats the trouble with him. That's why he needs to be born again. Thats why John the Baptist came saying, "Cut it down completely. Let there be a new thing altogether." The axe is laid to the root of the trees.
H. A. Ironside

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