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24th November 2008, 04:47 PM
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Reps: 128,122,907,497,978,496 (power: 128,122,907,497,984) | | Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen Your guess is as good as any. Would you like to share?
I will share it one day soon. I believe god wants me to wait | 
24th November 2008, 04:49 PM
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by derek W L I will share it one day soon. I believe god wants me to wait
ok | 
25th November 2008, 07:10 AM
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Reps: 428,381,231,678,240,192 (power: 428,381,231,678,254) | | | Something I did not mention. Ironside was far from alone in his view. All the classical dispensational writers believed that the false prophet was the Antichrist. This was taught by J. N. Darby, (who popularized the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture) William Kelly, and their associates. Although I may be mistaken, I believe the first modern dispensationalist to go away from that view was Dwight Pentecost.
__________________ Biblewriter is the handle of James C. Morris. I call myself Biblewriter because I write about the Bible.
Last edited by Biblewriter; 25th November 2008 at 07:11 AM.
Reason: typo correction, as usual
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25th November 2008, 04:39 PM
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Reps: 5,075,577,105,655,135 (power: 5,075,577,105,661) | | Originally Posted by Biblewriter I believe that the false prophet is the Antichrist. But I do not believe he is a Roman. Many scriptures indicate that the Jews will accept a false Messiah. This clearly has to be a Jew, because you correctly observe that no orthodox Jew would ever accept a gentile as the Messiah. Though blinded to many scriptures, they clearly know that the Messiah is one of themselves.
I see this evil character as the king of Daniel 11:36-40 (as opposed to the kings of the north and south in the same chapter.)
Many think this blasphemous “ king” is the Roman “prince” of Daniel 9:26. But the language of Bible prophecy is very precise. Every detail has meaning. The Hebrew word translated “prince” in Daniel 9:26 is nagiyd (word number 5057 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary). We saw in footnote 6 (page 29) that this word means leader or commander. But the Hebrew word translated “ king” in this passage is melek (word number 4428 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary). This word literally means a king. Even such an apparently small difference as whether someone is called a melek or a nagiyd is important. This “ king” is not the same person as “the prince.”
We notice that “the king” shall not regard “the God of his fathers,” (Daniel 11:37) but shall instead honor “a god which his fathers did not know.” (verse 38) The term, “the God of his fathers,” is not just a generic reference to a god worshiped in past generations. Some form of this term is used of the God of Israel fifty-eight times in the Old Testament. When the Lord sent Moses to the children of Israel He told him “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.” (Exodus 3:15) Thus we see that the God this king shall ignore is none other than the God of Israel; and that in calling Himself “the God of his fathers,” the Lord was identifying this “ king” as an Israelite.
Most modern translations render this clause “the gods of his fathers.” This is a possible translation because the Hebrew word for God (‘elohiym, word number 430 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary) is plural. But the Hebrew scriptures use ‘elohiym for the one true God of Israel about two thousand four hundred times. (Including Deuteronomy 6:4, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!”) While it was used of the gods of the heathen only about two hundred times. Whether ‘elohiym should be translated God or gods can only be determined from the context. Nothing in Daniel 11:37 implies a plural sense for this word. But if “the gods of his fathers” were correct, this would be the only place the Holy Spirit used this formula in speaking of false gods. Translators did not begin to use the plural word gods in this verse until the notion that “the king” is “the prince” became popular. So we realize this idea is the basis of the plural translation. Thus we understand that using the plural translation to prove this idea is only reasoning in a circle.
‘Elohiym has a singular form, ‘elowahh (word number 433 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary). But the fact that it is not used never justifies translating ‘elohiym as gods. ‘Elowahh is used only sixteen times outside of the book of Job. But it is used in every reference to false gods in the passage we are considering (the word rendered “any god” in verse 37 and the “god” worshiped by “the king,” mentioned twice in verse 38 and once in verse 39). This adds strength to the conclusion that the term “the God of his fathers” in this passage refers to the one true God of Israel, for a different word is used of all gods that are unquestionably false.
In Daniel 11:40 “the king” is attacked by “the king of the South” and “the king of the North.” The result is that “the king of the North” overruns many nations, including Israel, “the glorious land.” (verses 41-45) But “the king” continues to prosper “till the wrath has been accomplished.” (verse 36) How does he escape? We learn this detail in Zechariah 11:17, where, as “the worthless shepherd,” he “leaves the flock!” We see this again in the missing shepherd of Zechariah 10:2, in the missing king of Micah 4:9, and the fainthearted king of Jeremiah 4:9. For this crime “A sword shall be against his arm And against his right eye; His arm shall completely wither, And his right eye shall be totally blinded.” (Zechariah 11:17)
Our Lord contrasted himself to this “worthless shepherd” by saying “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.” (John 10:11-15) In so contrasting Himself to this evil individual, our Lord was pointing him out as "The Antichrist."
This is the one who will come “in his own name,” whom the Jews “will receive.” (John 5:43) He has to be a Jew, for many scriptures show that Messiah is a Jew. Though blinded to many prophecies, the Jews know that their Messiah will be one of themselves. It would therefore be impossible to convince them that a gentile was their Messiah.
This false messiah will rise in imitation of the true Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ. He is mentioned by this title only in 1 John 2:18; “you have heard that the Antichrist is coming.” Many, if not most, seem to have completely missed the significance of this title. The Greek word transliterated Christ is Christos, (word number 5547 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) meaning the anointed one. It is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word mashiyach, (word number 4899 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary) which is transliterated Messiah. This title, though it applies to our Lord Jesus, does not mean God. Its literal meaning, the anointed one, means He is God’s chosen one. Jesus said “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.” (John 8:42) Even so, the Antichrist will claim to be the chosen representative of God.
But, like the true Messiah, the Antichrist will claim to be more than just a messenger of God. In John 1:1 we read that “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” So in imitating Jesus, the Antichrist makes a similar dual claim. As the king of Judah, he will exalt himself above all gods, yet he will honor another as God.
As we have already noticed, “He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory.” (Daniel 11:37-39)
I see him also as the beast that comes up out of the earth.
In Revelation 13:11 John saw “another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spake like a dragon.” This beast looked like a lamb; (“the Lamb of God,” John 1:29, 36) but he could be recognized when he spoke, for he “spake like a dragon.” (“the great dragon... that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan,” Revelation 12:9) We have already noticed our Lord’s clearly stated contrast between Himself and “the worthless shepherd.” Now we see a beast who looks like the Lord, but can be recognized when he speaks, for he speaks like the Devil
We know that in Biblical prophecy a beast represents a king, for as we noticed on page 33, Daniel was told that “Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.”(Daniel 7:17) But this beast can not be the king of the revived Roman Empire, for that is the beast that John had seen “rising up out of the sea” (Revelation 13:1) This is “another beast.” (verse 11) The next verse stresses this by twice referring to “the first beast.” (Revelation 13:12) We should remember that God does not waste words. Every detail in a prophecy is significant. If God says something, it is important. If He says it twice, how much more so. The Holy Spirit considered this so important He repeated it three times in just two verses! This beast is not the same as the previous one.
This second beast “deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.” (Revelation 13:14-15) Many think this proves the first beast is the Antichrist, but they forget that Jesus taught men to worship the Father. (see John 4:21-24) The Antichrist will imitate the true Christ. Even as the true Christ taught us to worship the Father, the Antichrist will teach men to worship the Beast. Even as the true Christ did signs and wonders to make men believe, (see John 4:48) the Antichrist will perform “great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.” (Revelation 13:13)
This is why I see him also "the false prophet" who will work signs in the presence of the beast. He will use these signs to deceive “those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.” (Revelation 19:20) From these details we recognize him as the beast that John saw “coming up out of the earth,” for that was the work of this beast in Revelation 13:13-15. But here we see the one who did this job called “the false prophet.”
We have been noticing that the Antichrist imitates the true Christ. But the Satanic imitation goes beyond this to an unholy trinity. We see this in Revelation 16:13, where John “saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.” These three will act together in their crimes and will be together in their punishment.
“Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.” (Revelation 19:20)
“The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)
In this unholy trinity, “the dragon,” or the devil, takes the place of the Holy Spirit. In like manner “the beast,” that is, the Roman ruler, takes the place of the Father, and “the false prophet” takes the place of the Son.
This makes him also "the man of sin" of 2 Thessalonians 2. Also called “the son of perdition.” He “opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) Those who take part in this evil worship are charged with adultery.
“On a lofty and high mountain You have set your bed; Even there you went up To offer sacrifice. Also behind the doors and their posts You have set up your remembrance; For you have uncovered yourself to those other than Me, And have gone up to them; You have enlarged your bed And made a covenant with them; You have loved their bed, Where you saw their nudity. You went to the king with ointment, And increased your perfumes; You sent your messengers far off, And even descended to Sheol.” (Isaiah 57:7-9)
This passage graphically shows Jehovah’s jealousy at this false worship. But it also names the evil seducer. The object of this adulterous worship is none other than “the king.” We have seen that this is one of the prophetic titles of the wicked king of revived Judah. This again shows him to be the Antichrist.
Finally, I see him as "the lawless one' of 2 Thessalonians 2: 9-12, where we read that “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Biblewriter thank you for your excellent post, I'm happy you were first to post and make some clear sense out of the subject, this thread could have turned out to be a disaster without your sound understanding of the subject. Although I strongly agree with you, I can't say I understand like you
__________________ " As I see the developments all around, I burn with jealousy for the truth we have. It makes us, in its practice, a people rejected by all, but who have the bread that all need." P. J. Loizeaux A man isn't a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner. Thats the trouble with him. That's why he needs to be born again. Thats why John the Baptist came saying, "Cut it down completely. Let there be a new thing altogether." The axe is laid to the root of the trees. H. A. Ironside | 
25th November 2008, 04:47 PM
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Reps: 5,075,577,105,655,135 (power: 5,075,577,105,661) | | Originally Posted by derek W L I know who the antichrist is
Is that like a joke?
__________________ " As I see the developments all around, I burn with jealousy for the truth we have. It makes us, in its practice, a people rejected by all, but who have the bread that all need." P. J. Loizeaux A man isn't a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner. Thats the trouble with him. That's why he needs to be born again. Thats why John the Baptist came saying, "Cut it down completely. Let there be a new thing altogether." The axe is laid to the root of the trees. H. A. Ironside | 
25th November 2008, 04:55 PM
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Reps: 128,122,907,497,978,496 (power: 128,122,907,497,984) | | Originally Posted by Maranatha27 Is that like a joke?
NO I'm Not joking It's true | 
11th December 2008, 05:44 PM
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Reps: 266,137,730,047,749,152 (power: 266,137,730,047,767) | | Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen Well, there are currently about 3 Billion men on this planet and if the time is right, he's one of 'em. So, your chances of being right in this guessing game is 1 in 3 Billion.
the antiChrist is not a man of flesh, but an angelic man....SATAN cast here to earth to pretend to be the returning Jesus....not any human being today....sorry charlie Rev12.
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11th December 2008, 05:46 PM
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Reps: 266,137,730,047,749,152 (power: 266,137,730,047,767) | | | Jesus is the true prophet, Satan is the false prophet
Jesus is the true Christ, Satan is the false Christ (or the one that comes INSTEAD of Christ, which is what anti means. disguised as an angel of light.
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11th December 2008, 08:04 PM
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Reps: 74,246,822,550,068,064 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by zeke37 the antiChrist is not a man of flesh, but an angelic man....SATAN cast here to earth to pretend to be the returning Jesus....not any human being today....sorry charlie Rev12.
So the antichrist pretends to be Christ ? Where's the logic in that ? Why would anyone who is antichrist pretend to be Christ ?
You've been saying this for months now and haven't produced one scripture which teaches what you claim.
The scriptures teach that he (the antichrist) blasphemes God and those in heaven... and yet you continue to tell people that he will pretend to be Christ.
Why would you continue to spread something that isn't biblical ? | 
25th December 2008, 08:03 PM
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Reps: 266,137,730,047,749,152 (power: 266,137,730,047,767) | | Originally Posted by Ghost air So the antichrist pretends to be Christ ? Where's the logic in that ? Why would anyone who is antichrist pretend to be Christ ? anti is a greek word, meaning INSTEAD OF, not opposite... You've been saying this for months now and haven't produced one scripture which teaches what you claim. my friend, i have shown the scriptures many times....and shall again.... The scriptures teach that he (the antichrist) blasphemes God and those in heaven... and yet you continue to tell people that he will pretend to be Christ. he blasphemes God alright, by claiming to be Him....the worst kind of blaspheming....2Thes2... 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. now, what is the temple of God today??? we are, not a building....so if Satan tricks men into thinking that he is Jesus returned, he'd be sitting in the temple (us) showing himself to be God....just as the scriptures teach... Why would you continue to spread something that isn't biblical ? i am not...what i am doing is spreading the Word of God...perhaps you just missed the multiple parts that teach this truth...for example most people believe that Eve ate an apple in the Garden of Eden...but did she?/?no Rev6's first seal is false religion...a false messiah, the greek word for "bow" is toxon, and means a cheap fabric immitation ("bow" as in rainbow or aura, not weapon but appearance...and the first rider's appearance is a cheap fake immitation of the Lord's...) Satan comes first to deceive the world... according to Christ in the Gospel's Olivette prophecy...therefore do not look for Christ here or there, because it will not be Him...but the fake...who must come first to deceive the world... Rev13:11 states that the beast will look like the lamb slain, but speak like the dragon...looks like Christ...and as we learned in Rev6, rides a white horse like Christ will in Rev19, but it is Satan cast from heaven to the earth, marking the time of testing...Rev12 Satan comes TRANSFORMED/DISGUISED IN GREEK....as an ANGEL OF LIGHT, 2Cor11:14 and God will blind many to the truth (2Thes2) and actually deliver them to Satan on purpose (so that they get the mark of the beast and fail in the flesh) so that He can TRULY save them forever, on the Lord's Day (1000 year Millennium) 1Cor5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 2Cor11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Thes2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. now of course there is much more ..... chow!
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