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7th January 2009, 12:45 AM
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"As most of you already know, SDAs have been saying for more than a hundred years that the Papacy would be instrumental in getting Sunday laws put into place around the world. They already have one in place in Croatia, and now the Pope in proposing one for all of the EU countries, next we will see one in the USA."
If you are right about this, it could be the first time the Seventh Day Adventists have ever been right about anything, other than points agreed by all Christians.
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10th January 2009, 01:18 AM
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Reps: 42,513,888,155,053,832 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Dale  BrightCandle:
"As most of you already know, SDAs have been saying for more than a hundred years that the Papacy would be instrumental in getting Sunday laws put into place around the world. They already have one in place in Croatia, and now the Pope in proposing one for all of the EU countries, next we will see one in the USA."
If you are right about this, it could be the first time the Seventh Day Adventists have ever been right about anything, other than points agreed by all Christians.
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Dale: You profess to be a "Protestant". SDAs take the prophetic view of historical Protestants which developed during the Reformation of 16th century and beyond, namely, the "historicist" view of prophecy, which looks at the past, present, and future to interpret Bible prophecy. The Millerites of the Great Advent Awakening in the mid 1800's were wrong in their prediction of second coming of Christ, but these were not SDAs, which most people assume. Out of that movement, SDAs arose, and since then have seen almost everything that we have predicted come true. We predicted the comeback of the Papacy to world power way back in the 1800's, and what do we see now? JPII and Benedict drawing huge crowds in the tens of thousands all over the world. And even here in Protestant American, JPII and Benedict draw thousands of citizens giving homage to the Beast. Even our US President GWB has met with the Pope a record six times! Revelation says that "all the world would wonder after the beast", it is being fulfilled before our very eyes.
Last edited by BrightCandle; 10th January 2009 at 10:13 AM.
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10th January 2009, 08:40 AM
|  | The poster formerly known as Acts6:5
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Reps: 1,312,448,146,534,141,440 (power: 1,312,448,146,534,157) | | Originally Posted by BrightCandle We predicted the comeback of the Papacy to world power way back in the 1800's, and what do we see now? JPII and Benedict drawing huge crowds in the tens of thousands all over the world. And even here in Protestant American, JPII and Benedict draw thousands of citizens giving homage to the Beast. Even our US President GWB has met with the Pope a record six times! Revelation says that "all the world would wonder after the beast", it is being fulfilled before our very eyes.
But is drawing crowds the same thing as becoming a "world power" comparable to the papacy of old? The Roman pontiff may be visiting world dignitaries, drawing large crowds, and stumping for social issues, but even Bono does those things, lol.
The Roman See's temporal patrimony is gone, with only Vatican City remaining; he doesn't have the authority to withhold political offices from earthly princes; he doesn't have the power to rally "Christian" militaries against the nations of other religions. He doesn't even have the power to influence the EU parliament to debate the WTD amendment in question. Pope Innocent III wouldn't have stood for that; he would have issued an interdict against any EU nation refusing to back the amendment, and he would have decreed that the next EU president could not take office without Vatican approval.
The pope today is certainly a very popular figure throughout the world thanks to the legacy left by John Paul II, but is the papacy becoming a world power that can make or break kings? I don't see that at all.
In Christ,
Acts6:5
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10th January 2009, 10:23 AM
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Reps: 42,513,888,155,053,832 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Acts6:5 But is drawing crowds the same thing as becoming a "world power" comparable to the papacy of old? The Roman pontiff may be visiting world dignitaries, drawing large crowds, and stumping for social issues, but even Bono does those things, lol.
The Roman See's temporal patrimony is gone, with only Vatican City remaining; he doesn't have the authority to withhold political offices from earthly princes; he doesn't have the power to rally "Christian" militaries against the nations of other religions. He doesn't even have the power to influence the EU parliament to debate the WTD amendment in question. Pope Innocent III wouldn't have stood for that; he would have issued an interdict against any EU nation refusing to back the amendment, and he would have decreed that the next EU president could not take office without Vatican approval.
The pope today is certainly a very popular figure throughout the world thanks to the legacy left by John Paul II, but is the papacy becoming a world power that can make or break kings? I don't see that at all.
In Christ,
Acts6:5
You miss the point, the Papacy is drawing HUGE crowds even in the USA, the largest Protestant nation in the world, a nation that was established with the determination to never give homage to a Pope or a King. But what do we see now? Multitudes worshiping the beast! Bono does not have the prophetic significance, or the long history of the Papacy, that is the difference.
Regarding the EU vote: The work week was limited to six days, which leaves open the door for Sunday to be the day of rest in the near future, plus it was a close call, only three members of the EU committee blocked the vote to put Sunday in as a rest day. The pattern is their to observe, Croatia and Slovenia have already bowed to the strong religio-political pressure of the Papacy and have Sundays laws now in place.
You say that the Papacy cannot "break kings", we know now that the PPJII ,and US Presidents Carter and Reagan conspired to take the "kingdom" of the USSR. Don't you see that the Papacy works by stealth at first, and gradually gains temporal influence one way or another until it has supreme homage. Revelation predicts it will happen again, and the six or seven private meetings that GWB had with Pope is significant.
Finally, remember the Papacy did not gain its temporal power overnight in the late 400's A.D., and it will not regain its temporal power over night, but the pattern is there to see, "the deadly wound" is being healed and soon "all the world will wonder after the beast."
Last edited by BrightCandle; 10th January 2009 at 10:32 AM.
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10th January 2009, 10:31 AM
|  | I don't know anything
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Reps: 936,662,532,971,901 (power: 936,662,532,977) | | | If there was a law against working on one day of the week, whatever day it was, from a purely secular point of view it would be good for society. It would give workers a break - but more importantly, because their break was all at the same time, they could centre their communal activities around it in a way that when everyone has different days off they can't. It would increase community cohesion and be a step toward a better work life balance (we need more obligatory holidays too I reckon :p) - I cannot see how anyone can see this as a thing to get up in arms about except perhaps from a purely "free market" type perspective.
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10th January 2009, 10:38 AM
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Reps: 1,450,345,356,716,949,760 (power: 1,450,345,356,716,976) | | Originally Posted by BrightCandle They already have one in place in Croatia, and now the Pope in proposing one for all of the EU countries, next we will see one in the USA.
The dear old Pope is welcome to propose anything he likes. Proposing is not getting. As far as I am concerned he can propose we all wear daffodils in our hair and dance a jig to the sunrise every morning. No problem at all. 
He will not succeed in achieving a law enforcing Sunday as a day of rest as long as the UK (for one) is in the EU. Europe is not all, or even principally, Roman Catholic.
So there is no need to get all het up over this non story.
__________________ A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench. Isaiah 42:3 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Ad Jesum per Mariam |
10th January 2009, 10:38 AM
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Reps: 42,513,888,155,053,832 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by a.d.ivNonasNovembres If there was a law against working on one day of the week, whatever day it was, from a purely secular point of view it would be good for society. It would give workers a break - but more importantly, because their break was all at the same time, they could centre their communal activities around it in a way that when everyone has different days off they can't. It would increase community cohesion and be a step toward a better work life balance (we need more obligatory holidays too I reckon :p) - I cannot see how anyone can see this as a thing to get up in arms about except perhaps from a purely "free market" type perspective.
The lobbying of the Catholic Bishops want Sunday to be that day of rest for spiritual reasons because clearly states that it is the "Lord's day", while the 7th day Sabbath is the the only day God ever called "holy". The Sabbath is the day that God wanted mankind to rest on, but over time most of mankind has lost sight of that, and just does their own thing. I might point out that Pope Benedict and JPII clearly want Sunday to be a day of worship and have promoted Sunday worship, in their sermons and writings have also pushed for the civil legislation of Sunday.
Last edited by BrightCandle; 10th January 2009 at 05:49 PM.
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10th January 2009, 10:41 AM
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Reps: 936,662,532,971,901 (power: 936,662,532,977) | | Originally Posted by BrightCandle The lobbying of the Catholic Bishops want Sunday to be that day of rest for spiritual reasons because clearly states that it is the "Lord's day", while the 7th day Sabbath is the the only day God ever called "holy". The Sabbath is the day that God wanted mankind to rest on, but over time most of mankind has lost sight of that, and just does their own thing. I might point out that Pope Benedict and JPII clearly want Sunday to be a day of worship and have encouraged in their sermons and writings the civil legislation of Sunday.
Under this hypothetical law no-one is forcing anyone to worship though. You could just have it as a day for chillin with your homies if you want, whilst people who want to go to Church do.
What's the big deal?
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Don't take me too seriously
If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? -Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn
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Maria, Virgo humilis, te colimus, Ihesu, desiderabilis, te querimus, Et volumus mentaliter in superis Frui cum sanctis angelis perhepniter.
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10th January 2009, 10:41 AM
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Reps: 1,450,345,356,716,949,760 (power: 1,450,345,356,716,976) | | Originally Posted by a.d.ivNonasNovembres If there was a law against working on one day of the week, whatever day it was, from a purely secular point of view it would be good for society. It would give workers a break - but more importantly, because their break was all at the same time, they could centre their communal activities around it in a way that when everyone has different days off they can't.
What communal activities, exactly?  With all theatres, cinemas, sports centres and museums closed in 'honour' of the Lord's day? And how would they get there, with no trains or buses, and no petrol stations to get petrol, no recovery services if they broke down? Turning Sunday into the most miserable non event of the week. How does that honour God, exactly?
This is a fantasy land suggestion. It is completely unworkable and unenforcable. All that it shows is that the Pope is losing what marbles he has, in my view.
__________________ A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench. Isaiah 42:3 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Ad Jesum per Mariam |
10th January 2009, 10:43 AM
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Reps: 42,513,888,155,053,832 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Catherineanne The dear old Pope is welcome to propose anything he likes. Proposing is not getting. As far as I am concerned he can propose we all wear daffodils in our hair and dance a jig to the sunrise every morning. No problem at all.
He will not succeed in achieving a law enforcing Sunday as a day of rest as long as the UK (for one) is in the EU. Europe is not all, or even principally, Roman Catholic.
So there is no need to get all het up over this non story.
The fact of the matter is that the Papacy is steadily gaining power worldwide while most Orthodox and Protestants are asleep at the wheel. The Jesuits are loving it! And yes, the general population of Europe is more secular and postmodern than Christian, but the Papacy can use the argument that workers need a day of rest (Sunday), and still achieve their goal of getting society as a whole to do their will.
Last edited by BrightCandle; 10th January 2009 at 05:50 PM.
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