True or False: Hinduism or Christianity

Sukumanu · #1 15th November 2008, 01:02 PM

Many Christians and Muslims claim Hinduism is a false religion. If that is the case, then please tell me which of the following verses, Veda and Bible, are false and true.

Sama Veda - Book 3: Chp 1: Decade 5, "O omnipotent God, the illuminator of sun and Lord of this moving world or what moveth not, we bow before thee, as unmilked kine bow before the calves!

Biblw - Psalm 93:1, "The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."

So what is true? Does the earth revolve around the sun or does it firmly stay in one place?

Chesterton · #2 15th November 2008, 01:30 PM

The phrase “it cannot be moved” has little to do with modern physics.

If a Christian claims Hinduism is a false religion, it’s only the parts that are false which are false. Both of the above verses, standing alone, are true.

The Psalm is true, in that the earth is “firmly established”. A slight deviation from its orbit would be (or would have been) catastrophic for human life. The Earth has not moved out of its orbit significantly in recorded human history. Likewise, the mixture of oxygen, nitrogen and various trace elements in the air we breathe has not changed, or else you and I wouldn’t be here. Also, consider the delicate effects of the sun and moon. There are many different things which are “firmly established” which keep humankind “established”.

arunma · #3 15th November 2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sukumanu

Many Christians and Muslims claim Hinduism is a false religion. If that is the case, then please tell me which of the following verses, Veda and Bible, are false and true.

Sama Veda - Book 3: Chp 1: Decade 5, "O omnipotent God, the illuminator of sun and Lord of this moving world or what moveth not, we bow before thee, as unmilked kine bow before the calves!

Biblw - Psalm 93:1, "The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."

So what is true? Does the earth revolve around the sun or does it firmly stay in one place?

While I believe Hinduism (no less than Islam) to be a false religion which will condemn its adherants to hell, I believe that you are misinterpreting both the Sama Veda and the Psalm. I read the Sama Veda in context, and I already know the context of the Psalm. The Sama Veda seems to refer to "world" in the sense of the created order, not the planet, and it supposes Sri Indra as its sovereign. The Psalm, on the other hand, recognizes the God of Israel as the only Sovereign of creation, and describes that creation as immutable (presumably until the day of judgment, which is described in other parts of the Bible, including the Psalms). In ancient Hebrew and modern English (probably in ancient Sanskrit too), the word "world" can have many meanings. It usually refers to people, and sometimes the physical creation. I can't think of many Biblical cases in which the world refers to the planet. You may be stretching the meanings of the texts, here.

Sukumanu · #4 15th November 2008, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Chesterton

The phrase “it cannot be moved” has little to do with modern physics.

So are you admitting the earth is moving or not?

Originally Posted by Chesterton

The Psalm is true, in that the earth is “firmly established”.

This is not true because earthquakes still occur on earth. However, the bible mentions that earthquakes do occur so the idea that it says the earth does not move refers to physical motion.

Originally Posted by Chesterton

There are many different things which are “firmly established” which keep humankind “established”.

However, when this firm establishment is related to lack of motion, then the bible is claiming the earth as a whole is in fact stationary, and not physically moving.

Sukumanu · #5 15th November 2008, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by arunma

While I believe Hinduism (no less than Islam) to be a false religion which will condemn its adherants to hell, I believe that you are misinterpreting both the Sama Veda and the Psalm.

And in the same way, when the bible promotes false notions how can anyone trust it's validity or else find themselves eventually in the depths of eternal naraka (hell).

Originally Posted by arunma

The Sama Veda seems to refer to "world" in the sense of the created order, not the planet, and it supposes Sri Indra as its sovereign.

Please provide back-up to this claim.

Originally Posted by arunma

The Psalm, on the other hand, recognizes the God of Israel as the only Sovereign of creation, and describes that creation as immutable (presumably until the day of judgment, which is described in other parts of the Bible, including the Psalms).

The bible denoting that the world does not move and is firmly established is referring to physical conditions. Your interpretation though is obviously made up in your mind. I am sorry, but I was not born yesterday.

Originally Posted by arunma

In ancient Hebrew and modern English (probably in ancient Sanskrit too), the word "world" can have many meanings. It usually refers to people, and sometimes the physical creation. I can't think of many Biblical cases in which the world refers to the planet. You may be stretching the meanings of the texts, here.

Please provide back-up to this claim.

Morrigu · #6 15th November 2008, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sukumanu

Many Christians and Muslims claim Hinduism is a false religion. If that is the case, then please tell me which of the following verses, Veda and Bible, are false and true.

Sama Veda - Book 3: Chp 1: Decade 5, "O omnipotent God, the illuminator of sun and Lord of this moving world or what moveth not, we bow before thee, as unmilked kine bow before the calves!

Biblw - Psalm 93:1, "The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."

So what is true? Does the earth revolve around the sun or does it firmly stay in one place?

I'm sorry, this is as stupid as trying to prove the earth is flat because the bible says it is.

Religious scriptures have nothing to do with science. They are the expresion of the world view of a particular culture. In that sense, neither hinduism nor Christianity are Truth, they are not false either. They are, or rather said were apropiate for the culture that created them. They are kind of anachronic this days, but, who cares.

People have the right to believe whatever cra.p they want

Sukumanu · #7 15th November 2008, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Morrigu

I'm sorry, this is as stupid as trying to prove the earth is flat because the bible says it is.

Where does the bible say the earth is flat?

Originally Posted by Morrigu

People have the right to believe whatever cra.p they want

Then why are you here?

baobobtree · #8 16th November 2008, 01:38 AM

Namaste Sukumanu.

Though it is true our religion has mention of heliocentric concepts in its scriptures (eg: Aitareya Brahmana states "The Sun never sets nor rises. When people think the sun is setting, it is not so; they are mistaken. It only changes about after reaching the end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the other side."), I don't think that is what the Sama Veda is referring to here (nor the Psalm for that matter). I believe what is meant by "moving world" here, is a reference to the endless amount of suffering and desires, that are born of the mind. However, Brahman is free of such things, and hence when one comes to the see the futility of chasing these worldly desires, he instead seeks only Brahman.

Om Namah Shivaya.

Sukumanu · #9 16th November 2008, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by baobobtree

I believe what is meant by "moving world" here, is a reference to the endless amount of suffering and desires, that are born of the mind. However, Brahman is free of such things, and hence when one comes to the see the futility of chasing these worldly desires, he instead seeks only Brahman.

Om Namah Shivaya.

Well this particular Sama Veda verse is referring to Indra, not Brahma. Although it is true gods and goddesses are all parts and parcels of 1 God. Now the verse also indicates "God is the illuminator of the sun". Can you please explain how human desires and sufferings relate to the sun along with the entire context of the verse?

Druweid · #10 16th November 2008, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Sukumanu

Many Christians and Muslims claim Hinduism is a false religion. If that is the case, then please tell me which of the following verses, Veda and Bible, are false and true.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with others in that you've taken these verses out of context, and are trying to ascribe a meaning or concept where such does not exist.

First, with a change of emphasis:

Originally Posted by Sukumanu

Sama Veda - Book 3: Chp 1: Decade 5, "O omnipotent God, the illuminator of sun and Lord of this moving world or what moveth not, we bow before thee, as unmilked kine bow before the calves!

This is an ancient poetic form which describes the wholeness of a concept, or provides emphasis, by denoting two extremes. Biblical examples:

Psalm 139:12 (NIV) "even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you."

Matt 5:45 (NIV) "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

Originally Posted by Sukumanu

Biblw - Psalm 93:1, "The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."

This is obviously metaphor, and unless you can begin to indicate how "majesty" can be put to a loom, woven into cloth, and/or sewn into a robe, by no means can anything in this phrase be treated as a literal, much less a scientific principal.

And honestly, a religion will generally rise or fall on the whole of that religion, not on minutiae.

Regards,
-- Druweid