I think you will find there are more people that are without Jesus than are with him... not all even want him and they live perfectly good lives. The only people that feel incomplete without Jesus are Christians... most other people don't care.
"How do we know it's the right thing to do"... what a silly question... even people that have never been exposed to the bible have a sense of right and wrong... morality is not a Christian invention, you know, neither is the conscience... people managed for thousands of years without scripture, millions of people still do and the world is not a maelstrom of chaos and slaughter. The Ancient Egyptians coped for thousands of years and they were hard polythiests (except for Akhenaten, who was actually the first monotheist, in that he only worshipped one god, The Aten... but I digress)
One of the few things that I see Christianity giving the world is guilt, and lots of it... everything is a sin, and people should be begging forgiveness for the most trivial things.
I fail to see how living in fear of punishment and living under a constant blanket of crushing, unnecessary guilt is living life to it's fullest, and I never shall understand it, neither do I want to, so please don't bother to explain
{I'm now bowing out of this thread... I'm not going to take it off topic any further... if people wish to carry on this conversation, please pm me... thank you }
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I'm a Christian (though a poor excuse for one) and I am not a good person. I have to say that no one can be complete without Christ though. He is the divine Logos and without Him we are alogos. He is the only way to the Father.
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"Only love overcomes the fragmentation of human nature."
St Maximus the Confessor
"For one who loves transforms all that he loves into himself, while one who hates loses even what he has. One who loves belongs to the loved one while one who hates does not even belong to himself. "
I think you will find there are more people that are without Jesus than are with him... not all even want him and they live perfectly good lives. The only people that feel incomplete without Jesus are Christians... most other people don't care.
That could be true, but I did not claim that either, but you cannot tell me by observing people what is going on in their hearts, can you? You do not know if a person who seems to live a godly life, a good person on the outside, might do hideous things behind close doors.......the world is a stage my dear friend, many are actors and we find them everywhere, churches included. A Christian is a human like you, so why would one human feel incomplete without Jesus and not the other?
Originally Posted by Princess-Pumpkin
"How do we know it's the right thing to do"... what a silly question... even people that have never been exposed to the bible have a sense of right and wrong... morality is not a Christian invention, you know, neither is the conscience... people managed for thousands of years without scripture, millions of people still do and the world is not a maelstrom of chaos and slaughter. The Ancient Egyptians coped for thousands of years and they were hard polythiests (except for Akhenaten, who was actually the first monotheist, in that he only worshipped one god, The Aten... but I digress)
Silly question? not at all, my point is that God wrote the truth in everybody's heart, you either chose to adhere to it or rebel against it. People that have never been exposed to the Bible has some inherent sense of right and wrong, but where does it come from? This invention is not from the Christians, you are so correct there, it is from God! You will find that when you do not have Jesus in your life the line between right and wrong becomes more and more vague, the gray area becomes more eminent, morals starts to break down and a person gets more influenced by the world.
Originally Posted by Princess-Pumpkin
One of the few things that I see Christianity giving the world is guilt, and lots of it... everything is a sin, and people should be begging forgiveness for the most trivial things.
Guilt is an attempt by the Holy Spirit to guide you into what is right, why does people have guilt? Is because they are or did something wrong and they are afraid that someone will find out. If you listen to your guilt, you know you will live a free life, no fear, but some chose to rebel against their guilt and go ahead in the name of fun, no animal will do something they know is wrong, but people do.......
Originally Posted by Princess-Pumpkin
I fail to see how living in fear of punishment and living under a constant blanket of crushing, unnecessary guilt is living life to it's fullest, and I never shall understand it, neither do I want to, so please don't bother to explain
If you live by the laws of your country, you will have no fear right? But as soon as you do something like tax evasion you stand a chance of getting caught and punished, so you live with that fear everyday which prevents you of living life to its fullest! No matter where you go, there are always be limits or laws, you chose what you are going to do, you cannot live free if you transgress the limits, only accumulate fear.
I hope you have a great day and it was out of respect that I replied to your post.
I'm a Christian (though a poor excuse for one) and I am not a good person. I have to say that no one can be complete without Christ though. He is the divine Logos and without Him we are alogos. He is the only way to the Father.
All Christians have problems, but we live under Grace, as long as we stand up when we fall and keep ourselves focused on Him, we are doing what I believe He wants us to do. Get your fire in your heart burning for Him and you will become more excited to share your love for Him with others and you will have a desire to come closer to Jesus, keep Him in your mind everyday and try to find out how to please Him, for when you do that you start to become more and more happy, the world starts to fade away, your problems will become unimportant, you will start live a more Holy life, nothing happens in a second, but trust me it is worth it and when we go out to do His Will we start to understand why we are in existence and that is to glorify the Father in Heaven in everything we do. Pursue Agape love and then share it with all you come in contact with, I am still struggling with that, my flesh seems to want to live and I want it to die to let my spirit come alive!
All Christians have problems, but we live under Grace, as long as we stand up when we fall and keep ourselves focused on Him, we are doing what I believe He wants us to do. Get your fire in your heart burning for Him and you will become more excited to share your love for Him with others and you will have a desire to come closer to Jesus, keep Him in your mind everyday and try to find out how to please Him, for when you do that you start to become more and more happy, the world starts to fade away, your problems will become unimportant, you will start live a more Holy life, nothing happens in a second, but trust me it is worth it and when we go out to do His Will we start to understand why we are in existence and that is to glorify the Father in Heaven in everything we do. Pursue Agape love and then share it with all you come in contact with, I am still struggling with that, my flesh seems to want to live and I want it to die to let my spirit come alive!
Jesus is my hero!
Be blessed my brother!
" O my mother ! O dweller of the cremation grounds !
I know that cremation grounds are your abode and your chosen place .
now , just to invite you , I have made my heart a crematorium also .
I've destroyed all my pride and belongings , I have burnt away all my ego and desires in the pyres within my heart. Now, my heart is as barren as crematorium .
Come O mother , step in the crematorium of my heart.
I do not have any more worldly cravings . The fire of your seperation is the only thing in me now.
Come O mother. "
Ramprasad Sen
The thing is, that these other religions, are all man-made. Judaism and Christianity were the only ones given by the True God. And all but Christianity condemns the believers to Hell unless they repent. That's the horrible truth about Islam, Buddhism, Atheism, Judaism (because they refuse to accept God's Son as the messiah), and all the other religions of the world. It's terrible, but God is just and loving. He demands perfection, and sin is not perfection, we could never be with Him, even though that is why He created us, because of our sin. He sent His Son to die by the hands of humans and pay the price for our sins. Jesus, in that moment He screamed out in pain, He was experiencing Hell for all the world. So now that price is paid, but many refuse to walk across the bridge God has prepared for us, bridging God and man. The Bible says that broad is the way to destruction(meaning that many will not accept God's gift), and narrow is the way to eternal life(meaning that few will accept the gift of eternal life provided through Jesus Christ).
__________________ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31
Jesus Freak- One who is perceived to be overtly and excessively Christian; Someone who is an enthusiastic Christian. (This is definitely me!)
The thing is, that these other religions, are all man-made. Judaism and Christianity were the only ones given by the True God. And all but Christianity condemns the believers to Hell unless they repent. That's the horrible truth about Islam, Buddhism, Atheism, Judaism (because they refuse to accept God's Son as the messiah), and all the other religions of the world. It's terrible, but God is just and loving. He demands perfection, and sin is not perfection, we could never be with Him, even though that is why He created us, because of our sin. He sent His Son to die by the hands of humans and pay the price for our sins. Jesus, in that moment He screamed out in pain, He was experiencing Hell for all the world. So now that price is paid, but many refuse to walk across the bridge God has prepared for us, bridging God and man. The Bible says that broad is the way to destruction(meaning that many will not accept God's gift), and narrow is the way to eternal life(meaning that few will accept the gift of eternal life provided through Jesus Christ).
How do you know they are all man-made? Were you there at the start of every religion on earth? The same could be said of your faith... everything has to start somewhere, and without mankind there would be no religions of any kind. So all faiths could be considered man-made, really. It all depends on whether people view your god as the "only true one", I suppose.
My faith condemns no-one to a hell of eternal torment of any kind, as my faith doesn't have an equivelant of the christian hell... sorry about that
The teachings of Christianity condemn millions of people to hell whether they personally believe in it or not just for not accepting Jesus... doesn't sound very forgiving to me
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Last edited by Princess-Pumpkin; 7th November 2009 at 07:52 PM.
My faith condemns no-one to a hell of eternal torment of any kind, as my faith doesn't have an equivelant of the christian hell... sorry about that
Is your faith the truth? There are many faiths, if you want to sit on your life's throne, you cannot be a Christian, but almost any other faith in this world......
Are we gods? No, we are part of the creation and we are created for a reason......the Creator creates to show his glory or greatness, if you want to glorify yourself you are rebelling against the Creator and you are not glorifying Him. What does a Creator do when his creation is a reject(Noah?)? or what does an artist do when his painting is a reject? He throws it in the bin!
What do you think does the angels do? Do you think because they have power they do not have to glorify God? Well, lucifer tried that move and got kicked out of Heaven, I am almost sure he did not think God would do it, just like many believe the Creator will not place the rejects in the bin......
Psalm 19 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.............Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Does your faith comfort your understanding or needs for your life or is it a sacrifice you give to your god that expects you to go out of your comfortzone?
God cannot look upon sin. He is holy and perfect, something we could never be. Think about this, if you mess up just 3 times a day, a bad thought, a lie, anger, lust, disobedience to parents, etc. you will have broken God's law over 1000 times a year, and if you live to be 70, you will have broken His law 70,000 times, so ask yourself, does that make you a good person? No, of course not, me either, I mess up more than that. So what God does is this: He sends His Son to pay that price for we who don't even care about Him. His Son dies a painful death for us, because He loves us, and paid the price of Hell for all people past and present. So, Christianity doesn't condemn anyone to Hell, they condemn themselves. God gave that gift of eternal life freely, for all to have, but for some reason, after almost 2000 years, we still have not realized that Jesus is the only way. Since God is perfect, no matter what we do, good deeds, etc. will never be enough to completely erase what we have done. Think about this: If we lust after a member of the opposite sex, and then we get a kitten out of a tree (poor analogy I know), we still have lusted. So we can never be perfect, which is what God requires. So as I said, He sent His only Son to pay that price, and now we can have life everlasting, if we just choose to. And I am sorry that you don't believe in Hell, because it is real, painfully real. I don't want you to find out too late, please accept God's gift before it's too late! It's free, it would be wrong to let Jesus have died for you, then refuse the gift that He gave. And this is no religion, this is faith. God gave us this Himself, and He told us so Himself, man, He even sent His Son to tell us and we killed Him. He has told us, and we have rejected Him.
__________________ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31
Jesus Freak- One who is perceived to be overtly and excessively Christian; Someone who is an enthusiastic Christian. (This is definitely me!)
There is really no point in trying to make you people understand, is there? So I am not going to waste my time in trying... good luck, and I can assure that regardless of what you may think I will not go to hell, so don't bother to look for me there
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not at all, my point is that God wrote the truth in everybody's heart, you either chose to adhere to it or rebel against it. People that have never been exposed to the Bible has some inherent sense of right and wrong, but where does it come from? This invention is not from the Christians, you are so correct there, it is from God! 
You will find that when you do not have Jesus in your life the line between right and wrong becomes more and more vague, the gray area becomes more eminent, morals starts to break down and a person gets more influenced by the world. 
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