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30th November 2003, 11:06 PM
|  | Reunite Gondwanaland!
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 | | Join Date: 9th November 2003 Location: Left Coast
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Reps: 3,699,076,576,853,478 (power: 3,699,076,576,866) | | | I don't say the pledge anymore, at least, not since I actually stopped and thought about the words I was mindlessly mouthing. I am grateful for my country. I try to obey the laws. I hope I am a responsible citizen, and I try to serve my country as God lead me. But my allegiance? That's to God. If it ever came to a point when I thought following God meant defying the laws of my country, that's what I'd have to do. Why make a pledge to anything less than God? My obedience to Him makes me a good citizen. That's enough. |
30th November 2003, 11:09 PM
| | Senior Member
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| | Join Date: 30th October 2003
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Reps: 15 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by elanor I don't say the pledge anymore, at least, not since I actually stopped and thought about the words I was mindlessly mouthing. I am grateful for my country. I try to obey the laws. I hope I am a responsible citizen, and I try to serve my country as God lead me. But my allegiance? That's to God. If it ever came to a point when I thought following God meant defying the laws of my country, that's what I'd have to do. Why make a pledge to anything less than God? My obedience to Him makes me a good citizen. That's enough.
Hmmm ... I never looked at from that perspective. Thanks for sharing. |
1st December 2003, 06:49 PM
| | Dynamic Equilibrium
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| | Join Date: 16th November 2003 Location: Boston, MA
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Reps: 43 (power: 0) | | | I refused to say the pledge when I was in highschool because it contained "under god". I wasn't loud or obnoxious about it; I just wanted to sit quietly in my seat and not say something I didn't believe. Because of this I was constantly ridiculed by my homeroom teacher, who sent me to the office so many times for this "infraction" that I eventually got an in-school suspension for it, at which point my parents had to step in.
It annoys me when people argue that kids "don't have to say it if they don't want to" because that is a blatant lie.
I think the pledge should be returned to it's original form. |
1st December 2003, 09:06 PM
|  | Junior Member
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | This whole thought of abolishing the pledge originates from the cold war and can be found in congressional record Appendix, pp. A34-A35 (Communists Goals) number:
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
There is nothing wrong with giving free Americans a right to worship and the right not to worship, but I cannot condone abolishing the pledge of allegience, no one can force you to say "under god" and if anyone forces you to say "under god" or even forces you to say the pledge of allegience then you should take legal action or protest the violation on your civil liberties.
Those that have a desire to pledge allegience should have the option to do so and removnig the pledge is not a solution for patriots that do take the pledge to heart.
Best Regards,
Wayne |
1st December 2003, 09:16 PM
|  | Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related
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| | Join Date: 26th December 2002 Location: Southeast of Disorder
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Reps: 2,470 (power: 18) | | | Understood, Wayne. But I think you're missing the other point - citizens who are presumably included in the "one nation" clause ought not have to omit information from a Pledge that is supposed to be inclusive in the first place. |
1st December 2003, 09:46 PM
| | Celtic Witch
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| | Join Date: 26th July 2002 Location: Realityville
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Reps: 530 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Freedom Fighter This whole thought of abolishing the pledge originates from the cold war and can be found in congressional record Appendix, pp. A34-A35 (Communists Goals) number:
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
There is nothing wrong with giving free Americans a right to worship and the right not to worship, but I cannot condone abolishing the pledge of allegience, no one can force you to say "under god" and if anyone forces you to say "under god" or even forces you to say the pledge of allegience then you should take legal action or protest the violation on your civil liberties.
Those that have a desire to pledge allegience should have the option to do so and removnig the pledge is not a solution for patriots that do take the pledge to heart.
Best Regards,
Wayne
You neglected to mention which Congressional record, and what date.
__________________
Havoc
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James
When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?" -- Quentin Crisp |
1st December 2003, 09:50 PM
| | Celtic Witch
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| | Join Date: 26th July 2002 Location: Realityville
Posts: 4,714
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Reps: 530 (power: 0) | | | Those that have a desire to pledge allegience should have the option to do so and stuffing meaningless religious phrases into the pledge is not a solution for patriots that do take the pledge to heart.
__________________
Havoc
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James
When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?" -- Quentin Crisp |
2nd December 2003, 06:12 AM
| | Junior Member
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Hello Philosoft, good point. Did the original reading of the pledge include "one nation"? I cant seem to find any information on it.
Hi Havok, Im sorry for not listing the date, but I did list the record. Unfortunatly I cant post links yet I think until I have reached 15 posts or something like that (newbie punishments) However, if you type "Communists Goals 1963" in your favorite search engine it should pop up. But I will include the date of January 10th, 1963 here for you per your request. If you have not yet seen the record then I hope that after reading it, it will at the very least, spark an interests in you concerning just how totally inclusive all aspects of noncombat attacks are considered within the NWO regime.
Best Regards,
Wayne |
2nd December 2003, 06:39 AM
|  | Senior Member
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| | Join Date: 5th April 2002
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Reps: 1,738 (power: 13) | | Originally Posted by Freedom Fighter Hello Philosoft, good point. Did the original reading of the pledge include "one nation"? I cant seem to find any information on it.
The part that was not in the original reading is not "one nation", but "under god".
I think that Havoc's point is precisely that some citizens would really like to be considered as part of this "one nation" without having to declare a belief in God that they do not necessarilly share. |
2nd December 2003, 06:43 AM
|  | purveyor of hope
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| | Join Date: 25th November 2003
Posts: 436
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Reps: 15 (power: 0) | | | heres the first pledge for yall to read
I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all. | | |
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