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  #71  
Unread 22nd October 2008, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by larry_boy_44 View Post
and I don't consider it compassionate to encourage people to do things that will send them to eternal fiery torment...

I don't see how the Christian perspective of things is so difficult for you to comprehend... How is it compassionate or loving to encourage smoeone to spend ETERNITY in torment? How is that not the most hateful thing anyone could ever do?

But, yet, that's the exact response you want out of Christians...
The whole point is that we want such Christians to justify their claims: prove to us, beyond all reasonable doubt, that a man being in love with another man is enough to condemn them both to an eternity of suffering.

And try to do so without creating a logical paradox (e.g., " 'infinitely loving god' + 'infinite suffering' ").
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  #72  
Unread 22nd October 2008, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by larry_boy_44 View Post

although, i have to say... saying"I would be ecxtatic if my kid were gay" is a little bit absurd. Especially considering how hard it has to be in many places to grow up and be gay with the way that many people are...
I imagine the OP to be making a point in some way. The opposite of being disappointed is what?

Personally as I've expressed it's not something I comprehend either way. I don't think "I hope my kid is straight" or "I hope my kid is gay"

I do have a brother in law who actively tries to prevent his son from "turning gay" it might be humorous if my nephew wasn't turning into an absolute horror of a child who regardless of his orientation is going to need a lot of therapy. I think having dad snatch toys out of his hands screaming "girls toys are yucky" is bound to harm his little developing brain. (The poor kid.. he has 3 older sisters.. the house is a treasure chest of pink and purple toys from 20 years of birthdays and Christmases that passed before he made his appearance- how is he supposed to NOT touch girls stuff...?)
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I don't see how any African-American with any inkling of history can say that you don't have the right to live your life how you want to live your life.
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No one should be telling you who you should love, no one should be telling you who you should be spending the rest of your life with.


When we start talking about equality and everyone being treated equally I don't want to to know an African-American who will say everybody doesn't deserve equality


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  #73  
Unread 22nd October 2008, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by larry_boy_44 View Post
how in the world can you have 1,658 posts on a Christian message board and still not understand that, to a Christian, life on this earth is secondary and that no matter how hard and how difficult and how even painful it might be to do right on this earth, we still would rather do that and support people doing that then watch people do wrong and go to hell???
Do you really believe people who "do wrong" go to hell? You think your actions save or condemn you?
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I don't see how any African-American with any inkling of history can say that you don't have the right to live your life how you want to live your life.
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No one should be telling you who you should love, no one should be telling you who you should be spending the rest of your life with.


When we start talking about equality and everyone being treated equally I don't want to to know an African-American who will say everybody doesn't deserve equality


Michael Irvin





  #74  
Unread 23rd October 2008, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by larry_boy_44 View Post
how in the world can you have 1,658 posts on a Christian message board and still not understand that, to a Christian, life on this earth is secondary and that no matter how hard and how difficult and how even painful it might be to do right on this earth, we still would rather do that and support people doing that then watch people do wrong and go to hell???
I agree with doing 'right,' I just don't think we entirely agree on what's included in that, or in doing 'wrong,' and therein lies the difficulty. I believe that God is logical; reasonable, fair, and compassionate, therefore I believe that any 'rules' God has laid out for us must have a logical basis, based on said criteria of God's character. I see a logical basis for comdemning murder, as well as thievery, for example. They violate the rights of others; one to live, the other to live in peace, keeping what belongs to them. Homosexuality, on the other hand, I can find no logical basis for condemning. No, it doesn't propogate the species [in the usual manner], but I hardly think that's something we need be concerned about today, especially given that the number of folks in heterosexual relationships outweighs that of folks in homosexual relationships. Any other argument against homosexuality, as far as I can reasonsably see, relies on God's character as being less than logical; less than reasonable, fair, and compassionate. You could very well say that my understanding of these terms, as it were, do not apply to God because 'human wisdom is not God's wisdom,' but I don't believe that to be any more than a cop out; a way to avoid having to deal with the fact that the god you believe in may not be so nice after all. And, if God truly isn't so nice, then I have to wonder why anyone would bother associating themselves with him, which brings me to my [final] point: I find it rather disturbing that someone would rather side with an illogical god to save their own behind, than stand up for what is 'right,' live a good life, and end up in hell. It's really a choice between selfishness, and selflessness. Thankfully, I don't believe that those are the choices God gives us, as I mentioned near the beginning of my post.

Originally Posted by larry_boy_44 View Post
You still aren't grasping it because your view of teh world is a selfish, self-centered one based on humanity and human emotion being the height of existence... when it isn't.
"'...but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.' - Jeremiah, chapter 9, verse 24 NASB
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  #75  
Unread 25th October 2008, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan View Post
I follow the Gospel. That means no violence. It also means not supporting gay culture, gay sex, and gay social-political reengineering goals. Even towards children that want to engage in the behaviors and/or promote those that do.

That also means that I pray that people that engage in homosexual sex are healed of the desire, repent of the behavior, and become Christians as described in the New Testament.
You have that right, certainly, but why is it that you tolerate someone in the US worshipping Vishnu, which is not in concordance with your religion, and yet, feel the need not to simply not be gay yourself, but to expect others to be heterosexual simply because it is against your religion?

Are you going to tell people worshipping Allah and Mohammed that their religion should be outlawed, and that they should convert to Christianity, because it is in violation of the First Commandment?
  #76  
Unread 25th October 2008, 02:41 AM
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I'm really glad that attitudes have changed. I remember sitting with a girl I didn't know very well who was a nurse in the 80s. She had some patients with AIDS, and said that they deserve what they get.

One of my friends told me that his parents stopped talking to him for 5 years.
As for my parents, after I came out, they grew very distant, and never again acknowledged it. We grew apart. After about 20 years, they have finally come around, about a month before my Dad died this year. I think it was really hard for my parents to understand, because they didn't want to discuss it, and my mom would listen to the 700 Club, and hear Pat the Evil Leprechaun say how 9/11 wasn't just the cause of gay people, but of someone she knew, her son.

I often think that the insistance that "gay is a choice", and that "the bible says homosexuality is wrong" tends to break up families, rather than Focus On them, often by spreading misinformation, and sometimes outright lies.

I lived with a lot of fear, a lot of guilt, because of my parents. It felt pretty bad to have them sometimes suddenly start forgetting my birthday, not ask me home for Christmas, or the uncomfortableness they would show when we would go to church, and someone would ask me if I was married yet. At 45, I think that they can figure it out on their own, and it will give the tiny church something to gossip about.

I really wish my parents had been there for me when I was coming out to myself, realizing that I was gay, knowing how much guys in the locker room would talk about how much they hated gay guys (or even straight guys that they judged effeminate). I struggled with the biblical verses surrounding it, and would have loved to have their support figuring it out. For a long time, I thought my parents were ashamed of me, despite the fact that I am very well spoken, am a talented teacher, and a very loving person, and I believe that they were. Now, I now I know that they are, but we missed out on a lot of years, and now they are close to the end of their journey.

It is wonderful to hear this kind of OP, and makes me feel that the struggles for Gay Rights and Gay Visibility produced understanding, and even celebration of a parent who may potentially have a gay child. Thanks for that.
  #77  
Unread 25th October 2008, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Beanieboy View Post
Are you going to tell people worshipping Allah and Mohammed that their religion should be outlawed, and that they should convert to Christianity, because it is in violation of the First Commandment?
Give him time, he'll get around to it.
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Unread 25th October 2008, 03:01 AM
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Please tell me that I have not just opened up a Can of Christian Nation, and changing the government to a Theocracy for which it was supposedly intended by the Founding Fathers
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Unread 27th October 2008, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wanderingone View Post
I imagine the OP to be making a point in some way. The opposite of being disappointed is what?

Personally as I've expressed it's not something I comprehend either way. I don't think "I hope my kid is straight" or "I hope my kid is gay"

I do have a brother in law who actively tries to prevent his son from "turning gay" it might be humorous if my nephew wasn't turning into an absolute horror of a child who regardless of his orientation is going to need a lot of therapy. I think having dad snatch toys out of his hands screaming "girls toys are yucky" is bound to harm his little developing brain. (The poor kid.. he has 3 older sisters.. the house is a treasure chest of pink and purple toys from 20 years of birthdays and Christmases that passed before he made his appearance- how is he supposed to NOT touch girls stuff...?)
Your brother in law sounds like a terribly sick person
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Unread 27th October 2008, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by justacook View Post
I have been thinking about how to respond to this thread. I was wooried about offending anyone or sounding self rightous. But, it's my opinion anyway.
I have a 12 year old son who I love very much and am very proud of.

At this time he is having problems with his school work. I blame this on lazziness and his desire to be friendly and talk too much. I am upset with him and he knows it. But I still love him and he knows that too.

With that said, I DONOT want my son to be gay. I would be very dissapointed in him if he was. And I would make sure he knew it!
YES I would still love him.

My mother worked for a male juvinile jail. She saw many bad kids. I was not concerned about her feelings and smoked dope and did other drugs. She was from the "I want my children to like me" era. I was 40 years old before I understood how self distructive this way of thinking was. But, she still loved me.

I do not want my son involved with anything that is self distructive. And you cannot make me believe the gay community is not self distructivant less than the drug community is.

For this reason I would make sure my son knew how very disapointed I was if he was gay. I would hate the life style that goes with the choice he made.

But I WOULD STILL LOVE MY SON. As I am loved by my Father in heaven even with the thigns I have done and do.

this is one reason why we are going the homeschooling route, so that the idea won't even pop in their mind because they will know nothing about it in the first place.. Most of these "experimental" stages happen in later middle school and high school. And if the H.S. is pushing this on our children and condoning unchristian behavior it will teach our children to rebel. Also children learn alot from immoral programs on the TV and thus many need to be screened. Children should not be taught sex ed in in middle school. I prefer to keep my childs innocence. This world today dosen't let children be children anymore. A young child should be busy playing with toys, baseball with his father, being read to and taught, and having fun with friends. A child won't ask awkward questions or getting in trouble when they are busy being who they are. You'll be surprised how well things turn out when you let nature take its course and don't force anything unatural upon them.

And it is true. The gay community is laden with drugs, there is an enourmous meth problem within the gay community and many are associated with dangerous behavior such a raves and clubs where drugs and rape is common. That is where Jeffery Dahmer got all his victims from...

Last edited by CreedIsChrist; 27th October 2008 at 05:00 AM.
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