Why is non-belief so terrible?

Originally Posted by Borel
Are you saying I'm blinding myself from reality (where God is real)?

brinny: Yes

it comes as natural as breathing to do so. we have no love for, interest in, or desire to know Him.

My question is: "Why is non-belief so terrible?"

But why should only those who believe receive eternal life? How easily one believes is up to the individual. God could've chosen another attribute to whom he grants eternal life.

It's [as] if it said in the Bible that only blonde people get to heaven.

The problem is, I don't think we choose what we believe. We believe what we conclude is correct from the evidence we have, whatever we might take as evidence.

Although you guys are probably sick of this example, try believing that Sauron is real. It won't work, because you have absolutely no reason to believe he is real.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

My question is: "Why is non-belief so terrible?" Why should it earn you eternal torture?

Especially as your god hasn't left any clear indicators that he even exists?

I reject the concept of a god, I do not reject what that concept stands for (except for the stuff in the Bible even many Christians reject).

My point is, I am not evil.

Why are you concerned about it in the first place? That is what I don't understand. If you do not believe in God, it seems likely you don't believe in hell either; it would otherwise be incongruous. A concern about the latter betrays a perhaps subconscious belief in the former.

Unless, of course, what your concern is really about is the 'justice' of God (alleged to exist); i.e., whether God condemning unbelievers is a just thing for him to do, whether divine condemnation against sin is 'just'. That sort of question would be more consistent with your atheism (and an easily answered one).

'Belief' is not what gets you eternal life. Nor is 'faith'. The atoning sacrifice of Christ is what gets you eternal life, his perfect righteousness in life and death and the triumph of his resurrection. Faith is simply the means by which one enters into a saving covenant relationship with God through Christ, who alone is our righteousness. To use an analogy, forks provide no nourishment; the nutrition resides in the food. But it is the fork that conveys the nutritional food; in a similar way it is faith that is the instrument by which we appropriate the saving work found in Christ alone, the Bread of Life. It is not belief or faith that saves us; it is the righteousness of Christ that saves us, and we enter into that saving work by faith.

As noted above, (going with your analogy here) the Bible does not connect salvation with ANY 'attribute' of man. If “blond hair” is that by which we are saved, it is Christ—and only Christ—who has blond hair. You are bald. I am bald. All of mankind is universally bald. If I receive salvation at all, it is because of Christ's blond hair. I have none. Nobody does.

The latter sentence contradicts the former sentence; namely, “whatever we might take as evidence” is a product of our “choosing what we believe” (in the category of epistemology, in that case).

Describe Sauron to me. Describe his personality, character, and more importantly his being or nature. In very short order it will become apparent why this scenario is nowhere near analogous.

~ Ryft

Do you think I'm turning my back and closing my eyes on purpose? I can assure you I am not.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

My question is: "Why is non-belief so terrible?" Why should it earn you eternal torture? Especially as your god hasn't left any clear indicators that he even exists?

I reject the concept of a god, I do not reject what that concept stands for (except for the stuff in the Bible even many Christians reject). My point is, I am not evil.

And, it's not like I choose not to believe. I can't control it. Because I've never encountered anything in my life that would indicate the existence of a supreme deity (especially a specific deity) I find it very hard to believe in one. I understand if someone heard a voice from the skies or something like that and concluded a god was behind it (not commenting on if I would find such evidence satisfactory), but I have never encountered anything that would give me a reason to believe in a god.

I can understand punishment (although not eternal torture or anything like that) to someone who believes your god is real and still turns their back to him and worships the devil.

Thoughts?

Sorry if this has been asked before.

My question is: "Why is non-belief so terrible?" Why should it earn you eternal torture? Especially as your god hasn't left any clear indicators that he even exists?

I reject the concept of a god, I do not reject what that concept stands for (except for the stuff in the Bible even many Christians reject). My point is, I am not evil.

And, it's not like I choose not to believe. I can't control it. Because I've never encountered anything in my life that would indicate the existence of a supreme deity (especially a specific deity) I find it very hard to believe in one. I understand if someone heard a voice from the skies or something like that and concluded a god was behind it (not commenting on if I would find such evidence satisfactory), but I have never encountered anything that would give me a reason to believe in a god.

I can understand punishment (although not eternal torture or anything like that) to someone who believes your god is real and still turns their back to him and worships the devil.

Thoughts?

I am not concerned about hell, I'm concerned about the fact that people think I deserve to go there, and that a benevolent god would send me there.

Almost, it's mostly about a specific sin, whether nonbelief is something you deserve to burn in hell for or not.

But we need faith to be saved, don't we? And how easily one gains faith is something no human has in common with each other.

I don't think we choose what we take as evidence either. If someone told you that Superman is real, and he knows it because his friend's aunt's husband saw him flying around, would you take that as sufficient evidence? Could you take that as sufficient evidence and honestly believe Superman is real?

I was only demonstrating you can't control your beliefs by asking you to believe Sauron was real.

You could, of course try it on another religion. For example, I bet you can't right now honestly believe Allah is real.