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  #101  
Unread 22nd October 2008, 12:57 AM
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[quote=Anglian;49083998][quote=SolomonVII;49064218]

... The current liberalized worldview we are all living under has its effect on all of us and not just those who have drank the leftist Kool-aid

My conservatism is not spin. It is genuine. It is not out of a sense of hatred of 'dispised' liberals that I disagree with the Left, but out of love for them. It is out of a conservative understanding that their ideals, when enacted in society, will cause great danger and harm not only just for us conservatives, but for themselves as well.

It is not against flesh and blood that I am fighting. Indeed, it is for flesh and blood people that I am opposing the dangerous mindset of the current Left. I have no doubt that many people form the left are loving and caring and compassionate and even enjoyable to hug. That does not mean that I embrace any of their ideas which I understand to be evil in effect, even if the people who hold such ideals intend no evil personally.
quote]
Dear Solomon,

As ever, an interesting post, and it gives us much to think about; the political Right contains the same spectrum as the Left - from those who will tolerate only what they approve, to those who take toleration to the point at which it becomes complicity.
Do you have any examples of what you are talking about here?


The part in bold above is something to bear in mind constantly; the liberal mindset has taken hold in ways that effect, and influence, even those who consider themselves conservative, and, frankly, sometimes for the good. After all, the civil rights movement did not derive its impetus from the Right, and many of those who opposed it were on that part of the political spectrum....
It is sometimes for the good. Even William F Buckley, in many ways the father of the modern American conservative movement, retracted his former ideas on race when it became fully apparent how wrong such a view was. Conservatism is the tendency to preserve and conserve, to hold onto what is good and right and decent in our society, knowing full well that change will be coming no matter what. (Sometimes what is being conserved is not worth anything, but who really knows what will happen when the thread starts unravelling).
But just as often the change that comes is anarchic and destructive and a reflection of our carnal natures. As often as not, we will not know what we lost until it's gone.
This latest assault on the sacrament of marriage, being fought in Proposition 8, is a case in point.

Now, one could say that equal rights for all regardless of colour or creed is a liberal philosophy;
I would go further and say that it is a Christian philosophy. When it comes to race , it is in fact a Muslim and Jewish and Confucian philosophy too.
Race is a modern concept, born out of the errors of social Darwinism. None of the ancient wisdoms regard race as a basis of discrimination.

That is not, imo, true of that other great product of modern liberalism, abortion.

Abortion is not an intrinsically liberal ideal. Even if Anne Coulter is correct in her barb that abortion is the one ideal that all liberals and the left share in common, the right to life has strong roots in the documents and practices of all of our liberal democracies, including the American Constitution.
This is nothing inherently liberal about this culture of death that now has abortion as its center-peice of human rights. Even the Democratic Pary was at one time not so pro-abortion as it is now.

So, for conservatives to accept the results of the civil rights movement is something we can do with no harm to our conscience (though I know some Orthodox who would pick me up sharply on the 'creed' part). The same, again imo, is not true if we were to accept abortion.
In fact, tying McCain to the policies of George Wallace is a smear and a lie. There is no difference on the positions of modern conservatives and liberals when it comes to the rightness of affording legal equality status between sexes and races and even creeds.
When it comes to civil rights these days, the main difference is that liberals endorse legislated 'special rights' for 'special groups' of people, and the conservative Right does not. Moreover, like the Orthodox that you speak of, most conservative too do no believe that affording legal rights to all creeds entails that that means that all creeds and cultures are of equal worth or are equally beneficial.

Because some creeds and cultures clearly are not of equal worth or benefit.

Nor does affording equal rights to men and women imply that men and women are the same and are interchangeable.
Some of the ideals of the modern leftist are frankly quite laughable, or would be if they were not proving to be so inherently destructive to the very fabric of society.

So, in a way, we need a proportionate response, which, as Christians (if not as conservatives) we can give. The Holy Scriptures are clear on the value of all life, as they are on the sinfulnes of certain types of behaviour. If standing up and saying this makes us 'conservative Christians' in the eyes of liberals, so be it. For me, it is simply abiding by the law of God and the teachings of my Church; it is just being a Christian.
A human life is sacred and therefore of immeasurable value.

This Conservative Christian forum here is a response to Liberal Christians who have a totally different concept of sinfulness and morals and ethics. As much as we might like to say we are simply being Christian for opposing abortion and defending marriage as being of both a unitive and procreative nature, so-called Christianity is as heterodox today as it was in the day of the Arians and the Gnostics and the Monothiests.

The morals and values that have defined orthodox and universal creed of Christianity for 2000 years are the very definition of being a member of the group of us who call ourselves Conservative Christians.


peace,

Anglian


and peace to you too.
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  #102  
Unread 22nd October 2008, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by porterross View Post
How much elapsed between the warnings of the need to search for WMD and the shock and awe?
A little over 18 months.

Why wasn't more done to ensure that BinLaden was captured prior to that time?
Why didn't we defeat Japan first and then go to war in Europe?

We had unfinished business elsewhere and as horrific as Hussein was, at least the world knew who was in power there.
That's good. It's always good to know who caused the smoking crater in your hometown.

My Iranian friends compared it to removing the only teacher an unruly group of 5 year olds had ever known.
Is the teacher threatening to kill all of the three and four year olds?

Unfortunately, the manner in which the whole situation was handled showed how little the Bush administration understood, or cared to know, the very different culture he was going into with forced western ideals and military operations. Hasn't our own experience shown us that the best way to undermine terrorists is from the inside out?
And if we were fighting Iraq and the people of Iraq, you might have a point, but we're not.

There had to be a number of better ways to handle what looks like nothing short of payback against the wrong villain for an attack he didn't make on our country.
You're right. Hussein did not attack us. However, he did enable those who attacked us to attack us and was threatening to attack us and our allies.
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  #103  
Unread 22nd October 2008, 10:02 AM
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As ever, an interesting post, and it gives us much to think about; the political Right contains the same spectrum as the Left - from those who will tolerate only what they approve, to those who take toleration to the point at which it becomes complicity.
The problem with this is that it isn't conservatives who claim to push and demand tolerism of all. That's the platform of the left.
And every time they display their intolerance for conservatives whether it be blatant hate messages, wanting to stifle us or their bias & outright lies to smear and slander wrongfully, they are showing their hypocrisy

God isn't tolerant and Christianity is an exclusive religion; not inclusive of ALL people who supposedly end up in the good graces of God.. as if He's SO loving that He winks at mankind in his chosen depravity.
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