How do ya'll feel about preachers and "pastors" being paid? Is it biblical? Are we not all called to preach? I had a discussion a few days ago with a friend who believes at the very least a pastor (thats what he calls preachers) should be provided a house. I asked him where in the bible was that found. Now as a disclaimer, he is motivated by the fact that he aspires to be a "pastor".
I'll wait for replies before I put in my humble opinion.
In the NT people seemed to rely on people giving voluntarily. Many were self supporting, as Paul often was. There are two poles. Some 'ministry' expect to be well provided for. But many Christians want the services of a 'paid professional' without that costing them too much.
John 10:12
The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
One shepherd, the good shepherd. Hired hand is no good!
John 10:13
The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
__________________ Crafty as a serpent, harmless as a dove.
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I agree with both of ya'll. No reason to ask a "pastor" what he thinks. He wants to protect his income. But I think the reason us "laypersons" want to protect the status quo is because we still think the same way as the Roman church did in the middle ages.....indulgences (sp). We want to do God's work by proxy. Its safer and cleaner. If I just buy that statue i'm good with God. If I just pay for that slip of paper that says my sins are absolved. If I just pay for that pastor up there, He can go out and preach to the unsaved, feed the poor, etc.
The proof is how we now witness to someone. What do we usually do? We invite them to church. That way they can hear someone who is "educated" in the ways of the Lord. They can hear that powerful 3 part sermon. And we did our part by "witnessing" to them.
very sad.
J.
Ultimately, if a pastor / preacher / reverend / priest / and whatever other name we choose to refer to the "leader" of a church should be responsible for starting that church and should have a passion for the congregation and seek only to help them and guide them along God's path.
Unfortunately, since we live in a materialistic world, The reverend, pastor etc, still needs to provide for his family as well. Most churches I have been to, the pastor holds a part time and sometimes a full time job on top of his pastoral duties. In a large congregation where his pastoral duties grow to the point of not allowing him to have another job, I feel that the church should contribute to the support of the pastor and his family.
Most of the time we are fed bits from the pulpit. Rarely do we have an indepth study of a book of the bible. Unless you know the context you can't know the content.
It is only as we study to show ourselves approved to God (not man) that we discover that the NT church was not led by 'pastors' it was led by a plurality of elders, none of whom were paid.
Last year I decided to spend 12 months investigating leadership in the NT church. I started by studying scripture, much of which was in the Greek, then bought or researched books that adressed the topic. In all I read over 40.
I found that the contemporary idea of calling a pastor from outside the church to be the CEO/leader does not exist in the NT. That is based on the Roman Catholic idea of the priest that was morphed into a protestant pastor.
The Greek word for clergy does not exist in the NT and the word for pastor only once in Ephesians 4. The Greek word for 'ordination' not once refers to being ordained to church leadership.
The verses for church governance appear 25 times and every one of them refers to a plurality of elders. Not once does it mention a 'pastor'.
Paul told Timothy to ordain 'elders' in every church. Not once did he tell him to ordain pastors. The elders had a shepherding role as well as oversight, teaching and correction.
I discovered so much contemporary practice that was not backed up by scripture I decided to develop a website to convey my findings. If you want to know more go to http://churchalive66.googlepages.com
IMO
Most 'pastors' today look at it as a paid job. And most churches have turned church into a production; They have to have the lighting just right,...
NT lays out the description of the leadership. Pastors/preachers/whatevers are not in the leadership that humans decide.
God gave GIFTS to the churches; pastors and teachers, ...
Just like the Holy Ghost is the one who gives out the spiritual gifts, God sets the pastors/teachers in the church. Not man. Not election. Not voting. Not appointing
"And He gave SOME to be...
NOT ALL PASTORS ARE PUT THERE FROM GOD
And, Acts tells us that they sold EVERYTHING THEY HAD, and distibuted it as they had need. They were all, "in one accord". They had everything common.
A classic example of God's annointing not man appointing is a church I started. I noticed one particular man who spent his time shepherding the flock. No one appointed him and no one asked him to do it. He just did. It was evident that he had an annointing from God for that ministry. Did we stop him because he wasn't appointed? NO. Did we give him an offical title? NO. did we give him an official position? NO. We allowed him to do what he was called to do by God.
Like as in the multitude of small house churches in chnia and elsewhere .. ? ..
Gives people a choice, to be daily part of and to effectively work as a living part of Jesus' body.
__________________ if you find someone who is honest,
like in G.rm.ny, did you know the doctors there are allowed to cure leukemia with vitamins and minerals. No toxicity and very low cost. Takes a few weeks. Not legal for doctors in the usa because "it can't be patented" (that's their own words, their own reason)
A classic example of God's annointing not man appointing is a church I started. I noticed one particular man who spent his time shepherding the flock. No one appointed him and no one asked him to do it. He just did. It was evident that he had an annointing from God for that ministry. Did we stop him because he wasn't appointed? NO. Did we give him an offical title? NO. did we give him an official position? NO. We allowed him to do what he was called to do by God.
good post.
We all are suposed to "go make disciples". Which would mean taking time out of our busy schedule to get personally involved in peoples lives. Bringing them to the Lord, and 'schooling them' after. Does this actually happen, ...?
IMO, with most of us, we make a decision to 'get saved'. But IMO, with some people [like Paul] it's almost like they don't have a choice in the matter, God just knocks them down [to get their attention] and seperates them for Himself, for a very specific purpose, such as sheperding.
Also, Paul and his compadres actually worked to support theirselves. And gave instructions to support each other
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