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  #1  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 07:17 PM
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Transgender/sex-change 'not valid'

Over the course of my long and interesting life I have worked with Transgender folk and have met and known quite a few of them. During an internet search for something else I found this news report which while long I do think is worth quoting in full.
It does concern me that the Church is of the opinion that they see Transgender people as a class as being mentally unstable. This can be true in some cases, - just as 'normal' folks can be mentally unstable too, - but since I have at times met some extremely sensible Transgender folk who are holding down very serious professional careers I do feel that the Church is tarring everyone with gender identity issues with the same brush.

I would welcome your comments.

VATICAN CITY--Vatican says 'sex-change' operation does not change person's gender
Top

Source: Catholic News Service
Author: John Norton
Via: TGV_Advocacy mail list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tgv_advocacy
Date: Jan. 14, 2003

VATICAN-TRANSSEXUALS Jan-14-2003 (710 words) xxxi

Vatican says 'sex-change' operation does not change person's gender
By John Norton Catholic News Service


VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- After years of study, the Vatican's doctrinal
congregation has sent church leaders a confidential document
concluding that "sex-change" procedures do not change a person's
gender in the eyes of the church.

Consequently, the document instructs bishops never to alter the sex
listed in parish baptismal records and says Catholics who have
undergone "sex-change" procedures are not eligible to marry, be
ordained to the priesthood or enter religious life, according to a
source familiar with the text.

The document was completed in 2000 and sent "sub secretum" (under
secrecy) to the papal representatives in each country to provide
guidance on a case-by-case basis to bishops. But when it became clear
that many bishops were still unaware of its existence, in 2002 the
congregation sent it to the presidents of bishops' conferences as
well.

"The key point is that the (transsexual) surgical operation is so
superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If
the person was male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains
female," said the source.

Bishop Wilton D. Gregory of Belleville, Ill., president of the U.S.
bishops' conference, sent a brief letter to U.S. bishops in October
informing them of the Vatican document and highlighting its
instruction not to alter parish baptismal records, except to make a
notation in the margin when deemed necessary.

"The altered condition of a member of the faithful under civil law
does not change one's canonical condition, which is male or female as
determined at the moment of birth," Bishop Gregory wrote.

The Vatican text defines transsexualism as a psychic disorder of
those whose genetic makeup and physical characteristics are
unambiguously of one sex but who feel that they belong to the
opposite sex. In some cases, the urge is so strong that the person
undergoes a "sex-change" operation to acquire the opposite sex's
external sexual organs. The new organs have no reproductive
function.

The document's conclusions close one area of controversial
speculation that arose in Italy in the late 1980s when a priest
publicly announced he had undergone a "sex-change" operation.

Given church teaching that only males can be validly ordained
priests, the question posed in newspapers at the time was whether a
priest who undergoes a "sex-change" operation remains a priest --
the answer is "yes" -- and whether a woman who undergoes the
procedure can be ordained -- "no."

A Vatican source said the text was prepared largely by Jesuit Father
Urbano Navarrete, now a retired canon law professor at Rome's
Gregorian University.

In 1997, Father Navarrete wrote an article on transsexualism in an
authoritative canon law journal and has been consulted by the
doctrinal congregation on specific cases involving transsexualism and
hermaphroditism.

The priest, citing confidentiality rules, declined to speak on the
record to Catholic News Service for this story.

The Vatican document's specific points include:

-- An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It
concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain
extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the
patient's internal turmoil.

But a source familiar with the document said recent medical evidence
suggested that in a majority of cases the procedure increases the
likelihood of depression and psychic disturbance.

-- A provision giving religious superiors administrative authority to
expel a member of the community who has undergone the procedure. In
most cases of expulsion from religious life, the superior must
conduct a trial.

-- A recommendation of psychiatric treatment and spiritual counseling
for transsexual priests. It suggests they can continue to exercise
their ministry privately if it does not cause scandal.

-- A conclusion that those who undergo sex-change operations are
unsuitable candidates for priesthood and religious life because of
mental instability.

-- A conclusion that people who have undergone a sex-change operation
cannot enter into a valid marriage, either because they would be
marrying someone of the same sex in the eyes of the church or because
their mental state casts doubt on their ability to make and uphold
their marriage vows.

-- An affirmation of the validity of marriages in which one partner
later undergoes the procedure, unless a church tribunal determines
that a transsexual disposition predated the wedding ceremony.

END


01/14/2003 2:33 PM ET

Copyright (c) 2003 Catholic News Service/U.S. Conference of Catholic
Bishops
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  #2  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 09:23 PM
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Not in the eyes of God... we never change...
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Matthew Chapter 7

7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

One of President Obama's top aides, David Axelrod, declared: “the era of cheap gasoline is over.” Under President Obama, gas prices have increased about $2.00 per gallon on average.


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  #3  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 09:26 PM
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In my opinion, transgender people can have totally normal lives otherwise, but their desire to change their gender comes from something deep within, which..needs God's healing
I read about this one boy who always felt like a girl, and of course we'd all agree that this is not his fault cause he ALWAYS felt like this, since early childhood, but we'd also agree that in a perfect world this wouldn't occur.. that's why I think they're saying in this article that these people are mentally unstable or have a disorder, not in terms of them in general, but just in terms of this particular trait that they have. In the Resurrection of the dead, those of them who are saved will be cured of all this and wouldnt be transgender anymore. (yes I believe that they can be saved, because being born this way isn't a sin in itself - just like being born homosexual isn't a sin, only to act upon it (as Church teaches) - and if they do commit sexual sin they're allowed to repent like all people)
I believe that it must be difficult for them and of course Jesus loves them and they need His love and mercy too like us all.

btw I agree with the article that once someone gets a sex change their gender is still the same, if someone was born a male they'll always be male, same with female.. I also believe that it is wrong for someone to get a sex change although of course there is forgiveness and healing and mercy for all.

I'm hinting at something in my post which maybe I need to explain... some people talk as if sexual sins are the WORST sins EVER and that everyone will go to heaven EXCEPT the homosexuals or the transgender people.. but that's a little ridiculous, I'm straight and I have bigger sins lol pride is a bigger sin and I have that. If God can forgive me, He can forgive them for sure. Of course sexual sins are really damaging and real too and I'd never tell someone that they're not sinning if they're living this sort of life, cause that wouldn't be loving.. we should tell people the truth in love.. but I don't get it how some - esp. in evangelical circles - have this double standard; that everyone can find Jesus except these people..cuz that's not true at all.


Sorry for my long run on sentences lol
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Last edited by MoNiCa4316; 3rd October 2008 at 09:56 PM.
  #4  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 09:41 PM
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Hello Sianelle :)

I remember when this first came out and I do agree with the Vatican statement in its entirety. If God makes them male or female, a doctor no matter how hard he or she tries, does not make the person a new gender. Certainly if a baby boy is baptized, he should not be listed as a girl on future documents because he had his genitalia cut off and is taking female hormones. God created him a male - he remains a male.

People with learning disabilities or mental illness struggle and bear a heavy cross as do people with physical afflictions such as Multiple Sclerosis. Many of them lead successful lives and certainly are still a child of God, loved beyond measure. That does not mean that no disorder exists. Whether the word disorder, disability, difference or any other synonym is used - it is what it is.

A teacher at our local high school announced in August two years ago, just prior to school beginning, that he was going to become a she. He had to live a year as a female prior to surgery. He showed up in his high school classroom in full makeup, long flowing hair and I think he was the only teacher there that wears a dress. His colleagues were warned with an attorney present that they would lose their jobs and face a possible lawsuit if they or any parents said anything. He was to be referred to as Mrs. _______ and children faced expulsion if they said anything negative about the situation. The kids were not permitted to transfer out of his class if they felt uncomfortable being taught by a male in a dress, full makeup with a five o'clock shadow, with a masculine voice. The kids all had to attend a meeting where they were told the procedure of hormones and surgery. They waited to announce the big news until sport practices were well underway and kids would not want to transfer to our local Catholic high school due to time already invested. I had to explain to my child something I shouldn't have had to - why a man, someone's daddy, was going to have surgery and become a woman. It was in the news, and quite the talk of the area - though my child was in a Catholic elementary school in a different town, he heard all about it. I have to explain to my son that God doesn't make junk, but then yes he does? No, God doesn't make mistakes. We all have crosses. I long for another child but God has not sent one to us. We must bear our crosses with dignity.

Sorry, my two cents.

Kelly

P.S. Psychologists refer to this anomaly as Gender Identity Disorder.
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Last edited by Mom2Alex; 3rd October 2008 at 09:47 PM.
  #5  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 09:44 PM
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Please read this article

tell me what you think:

Boys Will Be Girls?
Catholic Therapists Help Kids Overcome ‘Transgender’ Issues
BY CELESTE McGOVERN
REGISTER CORRESPONDENT
July 6-12, 2008 Issue |


PHILADELPHIA — When “Ben Carson” was 3 years old, his favorite color was pink and his best friend at nursery school was a girl. He drew flowers and he loved Snow White.
His parents noticed differences between him and other boys and they started to recall with concern the little things he had done since he was a toddler — such as wandering around the house wearing a towel robe like a dress.
“Then one evening when he was 4 years old, I was putting him into bed and he said, ‘I really don’t want to grow up,” recalled his father, a government worker in Philadelphia who requested anonymity to protect his son. “And he said, ‘I really wish I was a girl.’ Something clicked. I just knew something was really wrong with my son. He was depressed and just not happy with who he was.”
If young Ben lived in Massachusetts, he could be a candidate for “gender reassignment” treatment at a children’s hospital there that recently opened a controversial clinic that allows young children to select their own gender and treats them with hormones. Hearings that began June 26 at the U.S. House Education and Labor Committee show just how accepted gender reassignment has become. Democrats on the committee want to make it illegal for employers to discriminate against adults who change their gender.
But Ben’s parents have opted for a different approach, one that conforms to Church teachings about the nature of human sexuality, by applying psychological and spiritual techniques to help their son fulfill his masculine identity as he matures.
Sometimes little boys playing with their sister’s Barbies or little girls refusing to wear dresses are just a passing phase. Sometimes, it’s more serious: Mental health professionals call it Gender Identity Disorder or gender dysphoria syndrome when the condition of viewing oneself as having an opposite-sex identity is, among other things, consistent and lasts more than two years.
So-called “transgender” children are increasingly likely to be channeled into programs that treat them with hormones and on the road to full “sexual reassignment” — including amputating surgeries to give them pseudo-genitalia of the opposite sex.
But the Carson family’s story illustrates that a Catholic response to gender confusion may offer the most genuine hope for full healing.
The Catholic response is rooted in the Church’s theology of the body, which holds that each person is a unity of body and soul made in the image and likeness of God. Because of this, the Second Vatican Council’s pastoral constitution Gaudium et Spes (The Church in the Modern World) states that “man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.”
As well, in Catholic theology there is no such thing as being “trapped in the wrong body.” Human beings are created male and female and although humanity’s fallen nature can result in psychological disunity and confusion regarding an individual’s sexual identity, every person’s body reveals his or her God-given gender.
Consequently, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that, “except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reason, directly intended amputations, mutilations and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law” (No. 2297).
“We lost dominion over creation with original sin,” explained Christopher West, faculty member and research fellow of the Pennsylvania-based Theology of the Body Institute. But, he added, “Christ can heal us, he can restore our true sexual identity even when we are deeply cut off from it.”
But increasingly, this is not the mainstream medical response to children with symptoms of Gender Identity Disorder. This year, the Children’s Hospital Boston made headlines when it opened the doors to its Gender Management Service Clinic, the first of its kind in the United States dealing exclusively with biological and psychiatric sexual disorders.
Pre-adolescents are given hormone injections to delay puberty, and children as young as seven are encouraged to decide whether they want to be male or female.
The clinic’s director, endocrinologist Norman Spack, testified before a Massachusetts State Committee on the Judiciary this March that his office receives one or two calls a week from parents of children with Gender Identity Disorder.
The rest of the story here, at National Catholic Register.
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  #6  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 09:58 PM
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I agree with Mom2Alex that it's a cross that people have to bear.. we all have our crosses, indeed, and this one can be heavy. But if the person bears it patiently they will be sharing in Christ's Cross, and that is of course a blessed thing. It's one of the ways God takes something broken and uses it, turns it to good, eventually makes it whole again.
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Unread 3rd October 2008, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MoNiCa4316 View Post
I agree with Mom2Alex that it's a cross that people have to bear.. we all have our crosses, indeed, and this one can be heavy. But if the person bears it patiently they will be sharing in Christ's Cross, and that is of course a blessed thing. It's one of the ways God takes something broken and uses it, turns it to good, eventually makes it whole again.
Unless of course we're wrong about that. Then they will have suffered their whole lives for nothing. I wonder how sometimes people with those heavy crosses remain convinced in the decisions they make to continue believing this faith.
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-- Doug Kmeic


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Unread 3rd October 2008, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by geocajun View Post
Unless of course we're wrong about that. Then they will have suffered their whole lives for nothing.
the Church teaches us that we can use suffering and that it's not for nothing unless we make it that way.. we waste a lot of suffering by not using it for sanctification, and not uniting it to Christ's suffering and offering it to the Father.. the Saints did this and profited greatly.

I wonder how sometimes people with those heavy crosses remain convinced in the decisions they make to continue believing this faith.
God gives them strength to carry their cross, so they do not lose their faith.
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Unread 3rd October 2008, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MoNiCa4316 View Post
God gives them strength to carry their cross, so they do not lose their faith.
Unless they do - lose it. Then what? did they not get sufficient strength or are they just too weak?
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  #10  
Unread 3rd October 2008, 10:15 PM
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it means that they tried to carry their cross on their own strength instead of on God's strength.
We shouldn't be afraid to be weak, in fact we should rejoice in our weaknesses, what we should do though is submit that to God and rely on Him not on ourselves.
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