Discussion on OBOB Forum-specific Guidelines (FSGs)
Based on some of the concerns raised by OBOB members lately, and some of the issues that have been coming up, the Administrators want to take a look at OBOB's FSGs and see how they can be updated to be clearer and more responsive to the needs of the OBOB membership.
The Ecumenical admins and I have dredged up a number of old FSGs from OBOB, including the wiki from post 777, and reviewed them for ideas. The draft we've pulled together is below, for your comment.
Please keep in mind that congregational FSGs are structured to fit into the framework of site-wide rules and congregation-wide guidelines. Basically, the question of how one should post (no flames, no insults, on-topic) are already covered under the site-wide rules. And the question of what is a "member" of the forum and what sort of "fellowship" a non-member can contribute is covered in the congregation-wide guidelines.
So, this discussion needs to focus primarily on
OBOB's Statement of Faith: Does it need any updating or clarification?
OBOB's Additional Debate Restrictions: Do these need to be expanded or clarified such that certain topics are disallowed in the forum, or discussion contrary to the SOF is disallowed?
__________________ Many people think that the question should be: have you made Jesus your Lord? Have you invited him unreservedly into your heart? Have you completely dedicated every part of yourself and your life to him?
The trouble is that when we are truthful, the answer must always be "No." So let's ask the question a different way.
Has Jesus given everything for you? Has he dedicated his whole life to you? Has he invited you into his heart? And the answer to that is a glorious and gracious and conscious, freeing, comforting YES!
(paraphrased from Pastor Wolfmueller, Table Talk Radio)
These guidelines do not replace the site-wide rules, but rather clarify the rule "Congregational Forums wishing to remain safe havens may choose to limit debate to members of their own denomination, insist that all posts conform to their creed etc."
Therefore, posters in this forum and its subforums must post in conformance with all of the following:
Forum-specific Guidelines for the One Bread, One Body (Catholic) Forum
The Congregation-Wide Guidelines apply to this forum. They outline the basic membership and debate guidelines for this forum. Additional guidelines are explained below.
NOTE: Many issues discussed in this forum can be pastoral in nature. If you have any struggles in the faith or deep theological questions, you are strongly encouraged to talk to your priest. You may try to get a better understanding in OBOB, but no one here has the authority of nor can take the place of your priest.
Statement of Faith
The Catholic Church is comprised of all Christians and churches who are united in full communion with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI.
This forum is open to those who accept the teachings of the Church, for debate, discussion, and fellowship. It should be noted that acceptance is different from agreement. Catholics may not agree with certain teachings, but they assent to those teachings as a lamb would assent to the gentle prodding of the shepherds crook.
It is hoped that through dialog, those who agree and those who struggle can learn from each other and grow to better understand the truths of our beautiful faith.
Additional guidelines on debate:
Catholics may discuss and dialog with each other on their faith, but active promotion of views contrary to the teachings of the Church is prohibited.
Discussing why we believe something, explaining why you have a problem with something or any other process that seeks to move toward understanding and assent is not prohibited. To struggle is different from obstinate denial.
There is to be no irrational liturgical prejudice. Whether a person attends the Ordinary or Extraordinary use of the Latin Mass, or an Eastern Rite Divine Liturgy, their liturgy must be acknowledged as fully Catholic and of equal dignity with all other Catholic rites. However, liturgical preferences may be expressed, but only in a charitable manner.
Do not use the privilege of the safe haven to throw stones outward at others. Discussion of how we theologically disagree with our brothers and sisters in an effort to understand our Catholic Faith and Christianity as a whole is fine, but anything that is a flame or an attack is not.
If you find a thread in another area of Christian Forums that you believe flames Catholics or attacks our faith in a way that violates Christian Forums rules then report it. Do not come into OBOB and post links to the thread in a manner that escalates a flame war.
The main OBOB forum is designated for discussion that pertains to the entire church. If you wish to discuss or participate in the Charismatic Catholic Renewal, please visit that forum.
The safe-haven and flame war bullets are the only ones I'm not too happy about, as they are already covered in the site-wide rules. One of the concerns I have is about redundancy in rulesets, where one forum has one set of rules about flaming and another has a different one. Whenever possible, we should rely upon the higher-level rulesets to determine what is and is not a violation of the rules. The FSGs at the congregation level are designed to clarify the forum's Statement of Faith, and any specific allowances or restrictions on debate.
__________________ Many people think that the question should be: have you made Jesus your Lord? Have you invited him unreservedly into your heart? Have you completely dedicated every part of yourself and your life to him?
The trouble is that when we are truthful, the answer must always be "No." So let's ask the question a different way.
Has Jesus given everything for you? Has he dedicated his whole life to you? Has he invited you into his heart? And the answer to that is a glorious and gracious and conscious, freeing, comforting YES!
(paraphrased from Pastor Wolfmueller, Table Talk Radio)
From an outsiders perspective I would favour instances where the phrase 'the Church' is used be replaced with 'the Catholic Church'.
__________________
Mother of Christ,
Mother of mine,
intercede for us.
Amen.
"Thus abundantly hath the Church of England vindicated her reformation from all pretence of apostasy from the true, ancient Catholic and Apostolic Church...No new Church was set up; no new articles of faith brought in; no new Sacraments; no new order of Priesthood to minister in holy things... only the old were purged from impurities in doctrine, worship and practice. If we were the Catholic Church before, we are still so, and to better purpose." William Cave, The Unity of the Catholic Church maintained in the Church of England
Oops, didn't realise that this was a staff discussion area. Just followed a link from the main screen. If it's not appropriate for non-staff to make comments then please delete my post.
__________________
Mother of Christ,
Mother of mine,
intercede for us.
Amen.
"Thus abundantly hath the Church of England vindicated her reformation from all pretence of apostasy from the true, ancient Catholic and Apostolic Church...No new Church was set up; no new articles of faith brought in; no new Sacraments; no new order of Priesthood to minister in holy things... only the old were purged from impurities in doctrine, worship and practice. If we were the Catholic Church before, we are still so, and to better purpose." William Cave, The Unity of the Catholic Church maintained in the Church of England
__________________ So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
I also want to add some insight into how this is going to be enforced:
Catholics may discuss and dialog with each other on their faith, but active promotion of views contrary to the teachings of the Church is prohibited.
Mods are not here to moderate theology. But there are some things that are direct and core beliefs to the Catholic Faith. Now...active promotion is something clear. And I expect that mods will not assume intent of a poster but rather contact them in cases where it seems Church teaching is being opposed. A post will be deleted while under review (as is policy) but a conversation will take place in order to clarify what the poster means.
A good example is abortion, since it comes up a lot. If someone seems to be promoting abortion as a right contrary to the Church's view of natural law then that member will be contacted to clarify their post. If that is indeed the case...then that would be against the FSG's. If it is not the case they may be asked to make that clearer in the post.
A word that has been thrown around a lot in the last couple weeks is "dissent". Let me point out that the determination of who is in dissent is far....far beyond our authority and often ability to determine. People are not going to be given notices for struggling or for having doubts. Just to get an idea of the factors in such a thing, please look at Cardinal Dulles' excellent definition:
Dissent is when someone denies the truth of what is taught and openly contradicts it. Dissent is sometimes confused with other responses such as wishing the Magisterium taught otherwise or failing to understand why the Magisterium taught as it did. Dissent is not the same as disappointment or incomprehension which are entirely compatible with assent. Nor is it the same as doubt, though doubt is likewise a failure to give full assent. Depending on the circumstance doubt may be voluntary or involuntary, culpable or non-culpable.
Avery Cardinal Dulles Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith
Now if someone struggles and then starts to browbeat or bully others. That is a different matter, one of flames, baits and a lack of charity.
Also people will not be given notices for defending Catholic teachings. But if they choose to do that with a manifest lack of charity...that is their choice and a problem. That will then also be a matter of flames, baits and lack of charity.
So people will not be given notices for struggling with or defending the faith. But in the surrounding situations...if they devolve into a lack of charity, then they might indeed get notices for that behavior. That is how that line is intended to be enforced.
__________________ If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer. Bob Casey Sr.
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Oops, didn't realise that this was a staff discussion area. Just followed a link from the main screen. If it's not appropriate for non-staff to make comments then please delete my post.
No, not at all. This is a staff/member discussion area. This is where we try to gather input and ideas from everyone concerned.
If it were staff-only, you wouldn't have been able to see it, let alone post in it. *smiles*
__________________ Many people think that the question should be: have you made Jesus your Lord? Have you invited him unreservedly into your heart? Have you completely dedicated every part of yourself and your life to him?
The trouble is that when we are truthful, the answer must always be "No." So let's ask the question a different way.
Has Jesus given everything for you? Has he dedicated his whole life to you? Has he invited you into his heart? And the answer to that is a glorious and gracious and conscious, freeing, comforting YES!
(paraphrased from Pastor Wolfmueller, Table Talk Radio)
From an outsiders perspective I would favour instances where the phrase 'the Church' is used be replaced with 'the Catholic Church'.
To answer this, it is the Catholic subforum. When we use Church it is understood we are referring to the Catholic Church. I would not object to the Eastern Orthodox using Church in their FSG's or ask them to use "Eastern Orthodox Church"
I would also not want any reformed congregation to modify their own identity in their safe haven.
I do understand your point but since these are FSG's for safe havens particular to a specific group...I think some leeway must be given to that groups identity as long as it is not a flame to others. In a shared area or statement it would be different.
__________________ If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer. Bob Casey Sr.
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I would rather see a more open limited set of rules, or no rules beyond the general site rules. I think the more we ask moderators to interpret, the more controversial moderator actions are to be, because of how many borderline judgment calls that creates, and I consider muzzling people and closing discussions to be fundamentally the wrong approach to discussion. A bare-bones approach would be better.
In general, I agree with you, Fish and Bread. The one thing we do NOT want is extra rules, or different interpretations of rules. That's why the framework for FSGs is fairly narrow.
we are dealing primarily with two things:
Membership: The default for FSGs is that those who agree with the forum's Statement of Faith are considered "members" of that forum. Members may debate, discuss, and teach. Non-members may post only in "fellowship".
Additional Debate Guidelines: If there is a change to the default, above, it needs to be spelled out in the FSGs. In some forums, they allow non-members to debate. In others, they have a subforum for debate. In others, they allow debate, so long as it is not against the doctrines outlined in the SoF, or some specific topics (like you can't proselytize in MJ). Some forums narrow the debate allowances. Some widen them.
We are not looking for extra rules to add to the FSGs. What we are lookign for is a clear, understandable way for mods and members to know who can post in discussions about doctrine, and what to do about special topics or situations that are unique to your group.
__________________ Many people think that the question should be: have you made Jesus your Lord? Have you invited him unreservedly into your heart? Have you completely dedicated every part of yourself and your life to him?
The trouble is that when we are truthful, the answer must always be "No." So let's ask the question a different way.
Has Jesus given everything for you? Has he dedicated his whole life to you? Has he invited you into his heart? And the answer to that is a glorious and gracious and conscious, freeing, comforting YES!
(paraphrased from Pastor Wolfmueller, Table Talk Radio)
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