Atheist ethics, atheist values

Recently, there have been at least two threads that were started by Christians who told us atheists what our values and ethics are or should be. Call me naive, but so far I was under the impression that all that is required for being an atheist is not believing in any god concept.
I was a little surprised to find myself informed that being an atheist requires me to
- have or at least advocate sex with or between 8 and 9 year olds
- share Vlad the emporers opinion that the poor and sick are beggars and thieves and deserve to be killed.

This caused me to reconsider - maybe I should not accept the label "atheist" if it necessitates me to hold these notions.
In the attempt to shine more light on this question I have a two-fold question for Christians (you are invited to answer only one of them or both):

1. Please tell me more about the values and ethics I have to hold in order to be a "true atheist", in your opinion. I just want to know them (and I won´t discuss them) - I mean I always appreciate it when people tell me what I think.

2. (And this would ask a bit more of your intellectuality) I would like to learn why you think that lack of belief in gods in general <staff edit> necessitates me to hold these values and ethics. Regarding this question, however, I reserve the right to discuss.

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Why I call myself a „non-believer“ or „atheist“:
I can´t relate to any of the god concepts I´m familiar with so far.
Either I´m not convinced by the concept, or
– although not having a problem with the worldview itself -
I see no reason to call one of its elements „God“:
There are already more precise, more common, less loaded and less likely to be misunderstood terms for these elements.
E.g. I prefer to call nature „nature“, the universe „universe“ and everything „everything“.

Kind of a strange thing to say, since so many conservative Christians are quick to demand the death penalty for others, and the priest scandal of not only molesting children, but rather than dealing with it, simply moved the priest, only to cause further damage, to save face, I can only then gather that such people are themselves the true Atheists.

Talk about End Time Revelation...

Something clicked with the OP.

The idea of Atheist ethics and one size fits all makes even less sense than one single set of Theist ethics. Somehow I do not see Christians, Jews, Muslems, those who worship Kali in her more viscous aspects and worshipers of Thor having one single set of values.

Other than perhaps being faithful to their God.

So that gives the one for Athiests, disbelief or doubt regarding the existance of any God.

The idea stems from the notion that there is no god and thus the highest judge that we have is ourselves.

Morality becomes more relative.

People are not held accountable for their actions in the long run.

So...

Why not maximize the amount of physical pleasure one can attain?

And what would be the evil in engaging in sex starting at very young ages? It is a mere physical action and anything else attached to it would simply be superstitious.

Really, the only value that we have, if there is no god, is whatever value we attach to other things. We can be our own kings and do whatever we feel and set our own boundaries.

It would only make sense to try to maximize our pleasure in this life through sex, substances and rock and roll.

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“The egalitarian mania of demagogues is even more dangerous than the brutality of men in gallooned coats... Anyone who has been oppressed can get back on his feet if the oppression did not cost him his life. A man who has been equalized is physically and morally ruined." - Ernst Jünger (March 29, 1895 – February 17, 1998)

I think people who have grown up as Christians or Muslims or whatever are brought up with their religious values drummed in to them, so some naturally attempt to (incorrectly) assign values to atheists, normally something along the lines of "without God you can do as you please, to hell with anyone else". They see atheism as a religion in its own right, when all it is, is a lack of belief in God

Atheists might have 'good' values and they might not. It really depends on a person to person basis, then again you could say the same for Christians or Muslims or Jews etc. I have to admit though, most the atheists here come across as very decent people, but then again, perhaps I'm biased.

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This is a common misperception, which I've never understood. I can't remember a time when I believed in a god, and yet most people would consider my actions to be extremely ethical/moral. In fact, when comparing my life's actions with my very christian extended family, it's rather bizarre to see. All the pre-marital teenage pregnancies are in religious families. The only child molester in our extended family was a lutheran minister. Drug and alcohol addiction - christians. Me? The atheist? Never been pregnant, no abortions, no teen pregnancies, no drug addictions, no jail time ... I could go on. Why? A deep-seated sense of right and wrong. This comes from parental upbringing, not god. It comes from a knowledge that society would fail if everyone went to chaos. It comes from the fact that the golden rule is not only a christian concept ... it exists in almost all (if not all) societies since time began.

The ones I worry about are the folks who believe that morality ONLY comes from god. Why? What happens if/when their faith is lost or challenged? Do they then give up on their morals? Do they then give in to a life of evil? That can't happen to me, because my ethics/morals are an essential part of my being.

I have often wondered about conservative Christian morals and ethics, especially those who claim that posting the 10 Commandments in public schools will somehow magically make gun violence stop.

An atheist simply thinks, "Killing people is a bad thing," but the posting of the 10 Commandments suggests that someone will stop at the listing, and read, "Ok, yeah, I believe in God, that's cool, I don't have any idols, check, I say, "Oh, My G_d" all the time, but no one seems to mind, check, more or less obey my parents, check, I don't bear false witness...Oh, man!!! Murder is wrong????? Ok. Put the uzi down. We can't kill the kids we were going to. It's against the 10 Commandments."

It's also against the law, and you don't have to post that.

As I was saying to a friend, if one looks to the bible as a guidebook, but uses it like a lawyer, it comes off seeming like you are looking for a loophole.
If you love your partner, you do everything you can to help that person. When you are about to do something, you ask if it would hurt your partner or relationship.
However, if you are constantly asking, "Is it ok if I see other people? How about if we just date, but it goes nowhere? How about if I just hookup with other people? How about if I just kiss, and that's all it is?"

You end up looking to see how much you can cheat and justify it, rather than trying to see how you can show your love. That's how it often comes off to people outside of the religion. Does it love your neighbor? It seems pretty simple, and yet, some christians will try and justify rude behavior, arrogance, telling others they are going to hell, hatred, cruelty, etc., using a loophole in langauge, or bending the meaning, while unable to simply ask if it is loving their neighbor, because that is harder to twist.

It would only makes sense to an amoral person. If you (general you) require a deity for moral sense than you are amoral. That's not the case for everyone though. Some have a moral compass all on their own. With that said, I can see the benefit of the god idea for those that may lack morals.

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"Few tragedies can be more extensive than the stunting of life, few injustices deeper than the denial of an opportunity to strive or even to hope, by a limit imposed from without, but falsely identified as lying within."

~ Stephen Gould


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Let's not forget the currently popular cheap grace where taking Jesus as your saviuor is a get out of jail free card for anything?

It is a basically indefenseable doctrine, but once people start thinking 'minor' sins are OK if I have grace then why not bigger ones? where does it end?

In that a Catholic or other 'balancing' idea, be it athiestic or faith based is socially much less dangerous. Tell a little lie, balance by giving a begger a dollar. One thinking that way (still a wrong way in my book) at least has additional resistance an each step.

A Jewish friend of mine exclaimed one night, "There has to be a God! I mean, if there wasn't, it would be anarchy!" I said, "Really? We would still have laws to protect ourselves." She said, "But we would just do whatever we wanted!!"
I said, "Ok. For the sake of argument, you discover that there is no God. You have premarital sex already. You drink, sometimes heavilty. But beyond that, you lead a pretty good life. What would you suddenly change? Would you kill someone, knowing that you would risk a life in jail, with no afterlife? Would you be able to kill a person? How about steal? Would you steal from a store, again, risking jail, but also would you be able to? There is no God to punish you, only man - the police and the law. What, if anything, would you do differently?"

She paused for a long time, and finely said, quietly, "Well, nothing. Nothing at all." I then said, "Now, you believe that there is a God, but you don't obey because you have to. You obey because you want to. And it feels different know. It know longer feels like a burden or obligation or even fear."

"No", she said. "It's out of freedom, and it feels liberating."

It's simply a matter of really understanding it.