Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
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How do you pronounce it, anyway?
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"Teaching the pagan religion of evolutionism is a waste of valuable class time and textbook space. It is also one of the reasons American kids don't test as well in science as kids in other parts of the world."
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Originally Posted by Colossians
We have seen alot of bluff here. But no answers from the evolutionist camp which address the philosophical impasse.
Philosphy & Morality Forum is down the corridor to the right.
Originally Posted by Colossians
And we have seen bluff of the kind designed to suck in naive moderators to rule against things like "trolling". (Always assign a label to the opposition's style which is ostensibly in the name of diplomacy - makes you at least look noble when you lack brilliance. If you can't beat them then by your argument, at least you can disqualify them by the rules!)
Broken another record right there.
Originally Posted by Colossians
Here is a typical example of the sort of cart-before-horse thinking we get from their camp, which sums up just nicely the redundancy of their position:
Pleasure is a good incentive to reproduce. If you don't enjoy reproducing, you are less likely to be willing to invest the time and energy to reproduce
Synopsis:
I perceive a need to reproduce (of course I myself am a reproduction, but that doesn't matter here.. I'm don't notice circularity when I am presenting it), and so I have a great incentive to reproduce (afterall, if I dont reproduce, my grand children won't be able to talk about me in years to come.)
"Perception of need" is irrelevent. If a population don't develope an incentive to reproduce, it dies out, simple is that.
Originally Posted by Colossians
But although I have this great incentive, it is not great enough: I need to 'evolve' a pleasure on top of my incentive, which will become my incentive.
So the pleasure which evolves emanates out of my initial incentive to stay alive, but by some special wizardry, is more necessary than my initial incentive to stay alive (otherwise I would not have needed to evolve it).
And although I cannot evolve all of an orgasm in my own life-time, I pass on the part I have evolved (sort of like passing on part-pregnancy) to those whom I am currently reproducing without orgasm, in order that they might be able to reproduce....eh...
Buy a box of Scrabble if you want to play with words.
Having an incentive to reproduce is an evolutionary advantage. That means those without such evolutionary advantage will not survive Natural Selection and pass their genes to the next generation. They will be outcompeted and outnumbered by those that have the evolutionary advantageous feature. Perception of need is irrelevent.
Pleasure and orgasm makes up a primal and very effective incentive to reproduce, and that's why populations that developed orgasm survived, and those didn't, well, didn't. Natural selection at it's best.
Originally Posted by Colossians
Evolutionists like trying to pull themselves off the ground by their own bootstraps.
And then they tell you this occured because their bootstraps needed to be pulled.
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Originally Posted by Colossians
The evolutionist has convinced himself that no intelligence behaves as one with intelligence would behave.
He reasons that an organism can memorize pleasure, and then change itself so that it will get more of the same in generations to come. So he has organisms with perception, who like joy-trips, and wished they'd evolved more of them in their own life-time.
I can just hear these organisms now: "If only we'd known what pleasure we could have had earlier! Now it's too late! But let's pass on what we have learned to our progeny whom we produce without this pleasure! Yeah! Great idea!"
Once again our evolution friends have our ends producing another's path to it.
In the Republic of Evolutionary, rain falls on people because cows are wearing raincoats.
Organisms cannot change itself arccording to need, regardless of presense or absense of perception. It does't take intelligence, it's just as simple as "survival of the most evolutionarily advantaged". Harder rocks will survive a flood while sandstone and mudstone will crumble and get washed away. Pleasure is an evolutionary advantage, and so organisms that did not evolved pleasure will be outcompeted and die out.
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Originally Posted by Colossians
Jet Black,
Here is a hint or 2 for you and your cronies (to help you get to the gist of things):
1. Pleasure has no utility where volition is absent.
Says who? You?
In this case, volition is derived from pleasure, pleasure which was developed as part of normal variation amongst populations of organisms, developement which is an evolutionary advantage, and therefore allowed those of the population with this development to outcompete those without, and those without this devlopement die out, those with lives on.
Originally Posted by Colossians
2. Pleasure is a non-entity where perception is absent.
Originally Posted by Colossians
Again, who says that? You?
In evolution, perception is irrelevant, and I've repeatedly demonstrated why.
You need to think again, this time at the fundamental level.
I am logging off now - it is late in this part of the world. When I next attend this thread, I will expect a thoughtful response to the full ramifications of the 2 pointers I have provided in bold font.
And I shall expect such from you.
Evolution 'needs' for species to reproduce, that is the whole idea!
Species have to eat, else they will die and not be able to reproduce. Does hunger prove evolution wrong? Feeling hungry makes a specimen eat, and able to survive. In the same sense, orgasms make a specimen want to be able to reproduce and pass their traits down. Simple as that, next question?
Originally Posted by www.dictionary.com
ev·o·lu·tion
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.
Biology.
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
__________________
Doubt is a powerful tool, it helps filter out lies. You can say that doubt is related to honesty, yet, religious followers will never doubt their beliefs. The fact that God did not care to inspire mankind in the translation of his scriptures makes me doubt if he would care to inspire his scriptures in the first place Being punished for holding an opinion that Jesus may not be God is as wacky as being punished for not having green as our favorite color.
Oh yeah...oops. Anyone know if they have orgasms ?
they seem to find sex pleasurable and do it for fun, like certain other great apes. dolphins are also one of the only animals other than humans that commit gang rape.
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