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20th August 2008, 09:20 AM
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Reps: 791,509,532 (power: 791,535) | | Originally Posted by visionary  Passover Lamb covered everyone in the house.. all those who remained in the house, and all those who were partaking of the Passover Lamb meal. It means the same today... you are covered from the eternal death by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.
sure, but again, is Jesus the sacrifice for sin, or just the covering. (maybe that's where the answer is... maybe I asked the wrong question)
__________________ Assist me in being one in solidarity with Thy little ones
by taking to heart the words of Thy Son,
"whatever you did for one of these least brothers of Mine,
you did for Me." (Mt. 25:40)
Therefore, allow me today, Father,
to adopt spiritually an unborn child
and to offer my prayers, works,
joys and sufferings for that little one |
20th August 2008, 03:04 PM
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Reps: 1,846,258,349,474,354,944 (power: 1,846,258,349,474,404) | | Daniel Lancaster maybe able to help you:
D. Lancaster08) Elementary Principles of MessiahDownload
08) Children's StoryDownload
He talks about the basics and that includes this issue of His Sacrifice
Hes my favorite Messianic Preacher because he is such a great communicator 
Last edited by Tishri1; 20th August 2008 at 03:12 PM.
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22nd August 2008, 03:02 AM
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Reps: 131,818,741,743,836,960 (power: 131,818,741,743,844) | | Originally Posted by dvd_holc First, the current rabinical midrash on the Servant song in Isaiah is that it refers to Israel as a whole, but this is a product of many centuries of interaction with Jewish Christians saying it is Christ.
kivi says: That is the Christian story line. That does not mean it is true. The Servant description in Isaiah is clearly a collective. 2) God is the one who atones for sins through grace which the sacrifices are pictures of.
kivi says: Of course, G-d, in the ultimate end, is the reason for everything. But the korban/Temple process is as descibed is clear and sufficient. There is no need for G-d to interfer or change the System. He got it right the 1st time. Whne Moshicah Comes, he will re-build the Temple and re-institute the korban system. Actually, when the passages where written they indeed referred to something that would happen and had yet to happen.
kivi says: That is not true, you have your tenses mistaken. Of course, without you giving the particpants of this thread the verse numbers you arerefering to, there always remains a faint doubt as to what you are really mean. 4) The word of God recorded in Daniel does put time limits on certain things.
kivi says: Which no human, now, can figure out, let alone, agree on. So, as watch that can not be read, is hardly useful to tell time.
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22nd August 2008, 08:11 AM
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Shalom of Spirit,
David
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.
Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. |
22nd August 2008, 09:00 AM
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Reps: 791,509,532 (power: 791,535) | | | kivi - no comment on the verses debate... but do you really think that not being as we were created to be, as Adam and Eve were created, is sufficient? Sure, the sacrifice system might work... but really, we've deviated from our original purpose and status... I'd think returning to that status would be the most complete way to be
__________________ Assist me in being one in solidarity with Thy little ones
by taking to heart the words of Thy Son,
"whatever you did for one of these least brothers of Mine,
you did for Me." (Mt. 25:40)
Therefore, allow me today, Father,
to adopt spiritually an unborn child
and to offer my prayers, works,
joys and sufferings for that little one |
22nd August 2008, 02:06 PM
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Reps: 1,846,258,349,474,354,944 (power: 1,846,258,349,474,404) | | The OT talks about the suffering servant as well as the conquering king , Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David....If his death was something never heard of before why werent the disciples shocked to hear of such a concept, why did they stay with him after he started to talk this way....It doesnt seem to be a concept they rejected but embraced....
Also Yeshua and the Disciples talk about being free from sin and the power of sin thru His blood, again not a concept that seemed new or strange
IMO the idea of the Suffering Messiah was not new to them
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Last edited by Tishri1; 22nd August 2008 at 02:12 PM.
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24th August 2008, 03:32 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,890) | | Originally Posted by ElsanRandiMom kivi - no comment on the verses debate... but do you really think that not being as we were created to be, as Adam and Eve were created, is sufficient? Sure, the sacrifice system might work... but really, we've deviated from our original purpose and status... I'd think returning to that status would be the most complete way to be
Greetings.
While trying to harmonize what I call the "Jewish/Hebrew" book of Revelation to the OT Scriptures, I came across Zeph 1:7 concerning a "Sacrifice".
Is this talking about the sacrifice of JESUS or a sacrifice of vengeance on those who do not accept the Words of YHWH's Christ, JESUS. Any help would be appreciated. Shalom 
http://www.scripture4all.org/
zeph 1:7 Be-hushed! from faces of my-Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a Sacrifice/02077 zebach, He sanctifies ones-being-Called/07121 qara' of Him.
8 And He becomes in Day of Sacrifice of YHWH.........
Hebrews 9:26 Since it was binding Him many-times to be suffering from according-casting of world, now yet once upon together-finish/sun-teleia <4930> of the Ages into putting-away of Sin, thru the Sacrifice/qusiaV <2378> of Him, He has been manifested.
Reve 19:17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered! into the Supper of the Great God. [Zeph 1:7/Ezekiel 39:19]
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24th August 2008, 03:49 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,890) | | And here again in Ezekiel 39:17, 18 a Great Sacrifice is mentioned. This cannot be concerning JESUS as this appears to happen after He has already prophecied to Israel and Judah it seems. Pretty fascinating that the verse numbers are the same in these chapters. Thoughts? 
Ezekiel 39:17 " And thou son of adam, thus He says my Lord YHWH, say thou! to bird of every wing, and to all of beast of the field: 'be assembled/06908 qabats ye! and come ye! together/0622 'acaph ye from round about on Sacrifice of Me which I Sacrificing for ye, a Sacrifice great on Mountains of Israel, and ye eat flesh and ye drink blood. 18 Flesh of mighty-ones ye shall eat, and blood of princes of the Land ye shall drink.....
Reve 19:17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered! into the Supper of the Great God. 18 That ye may be eating fleshes [Zeph 1:7/Ezekiel 39:19]
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24th August 2008, 03:57 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,824) | | Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus And here again in Ezekiel 39:17, 18 a Great Sacrifice is mentioned. This cannot be concerning JESUS as this appears to happen after He has already prophecied to Israel and Judah it seems. Pretty fascinating that the verse numbers are the same in these chapters. Thoughts? Ezekiel 39:17 " And thou son of adam, thus He says my Lord YHWH, say thou! to bird of every wing, and to all of beast of the field: 'be assembled/06908 qabats ye! and come ye! together/0622 'acaph ye from round about on Sacrifice of Me which I Sacrificing for ye, a Sacrifice great on Mountains of Israel, and ye eat flesh and ye drink blood. 18 Flesh of mighty-ones ye shall eat, and blood of princes of the Land ye shall drink..... Reve 19:17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered! into the Supper of the Great God. 18 That ye may be eating fleshes [Zeph 1:7/Ezekiel 39:19]
since neither one of those verses have to do with sacrifice for sin.. they are not part of the sacrificial with redemptive powers that God provides.
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24th August 2008, 04:25 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,890) | | Originally Posted by visionary since neither one of those verses have to do with sacrifice for sin.. they are not part of the sacrificial with redemptive powers that God provides.
Greetings. Why did JESUS come to Israel and the Jews except to perhaps free them from the Bondage of the OC type sacrifices for Sin 
My view of the Jewish/Hebrew revelation is showing the Destruction of the OC "types/shadows" of the Temple and Priesthood.
Notice 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 18:11:
Zeph 1:16 A day of trumpet and alarm/shouting on the cities/05892 `iyr, ones being fenced/fortified/01219 batsar and the corners/towers, the lofty ones . 17 "And I bring distress to adam and they go as blind-ones, that against YHWH they Sin, and blood of them shall be poured out as soil and intestine of them as dung.
Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to Stones ideal, and devoted-things/anaqhmasin <334> it hath been adorned, He said,.......
2 Peter 3:12 Toward seeming/expecting and hastening the Parousia of the, of the God, Day, thru which heavens being fired/purou-menoi shall be being dissolved and elements/stoiceia <4747> burning being melted.
Reve 18:11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over her, because no one is not still buying their merchandise/cargo 12 merchandise/cargoes of gold, and of silver, and of precious stone, and of pearl,
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