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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #71  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:21 PM
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Lyle, read the list of books I presented, then you'll see your errors.
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  #72  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Have you studied it?
Yes Lyle I have read it TWICE -cover to cover. I was born and raised catholic. I left Catholocism (not because I was against it but because I wanted to spiritually branch out) I then went to a Church of Christ, here in Texas. I worshipped there for a couple years until the ignorance became too much to handle. Picture a Bubba pulling up to church in his pick-up truck spitting Copenhagen out the window and then having another Bubba in Bible study instruct the first one to ask non believers if they have ever heard of the Second Law of Thermo as was way to quell an argument. Pretty dangerous, I thought to whip out science terms and have no idea what they mean. When they kept ref. to the Solar System as the Galaxy I knew it was time for me to fly. Recently I have been visiting Synagogue with some school mates. At 33 I have studied religion, wuite a bit from the inside looking out and vice versa! The Jews do not believe Genesis to be literal and it is THEIR book-go figure!
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None of the gods love wisdom or desire to become wise, for they are wise already -- nor if someone else is wise, do they love wisdom. Neither do the ignorant love wisdom or desire to become wise; for this is the grievous thing about ignorance, that those who are neither good nor beautiful nor sensible think they are good enough, and do not desire that which they do not think they are lacking.

Plato, Symposium 203E-204A

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  #73  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jet Black
you need to be alot more careful. remember that some posters here have been studying this sort of stuff since before you were born. I myself have been studying nothing but physics for the past six and a bit years, and even at a highish level in the five years preceeding that. Just on my university education alone, I have been studying physics day in day out since you were 11. Frumous and Lucaspa have ben studying their fields for what, twenty or thirty years.(coo they're so old ) If you really wanna learn about this stuff, then most of us here are willing to teach it.
Originally Posted by Jet Black
If you really wanna learn about this stuff, then most of us here are willing to teach it.
You are right.... Nobodies going anywhere in this thread.. I need to go back to the drawing board and study a bit more before a reattempt to debunk any theory of Evolution.... But you are the first who has challenaged me in such a way as wrong and to re-research..

Originally Posted by Pete
You missed my point. I was referring to people's interpretations of the Bible. No one has a lock on what is the "correct" Biblical interpretation. You could just as easily be as wrong in your own Biblical interpretation as the next person. Remember, you're a fallible human just like the rest of us.
Again I say, you couldn't have hit it any "wronger " The Bible does have rights and wrongs.. And yes, many people may interpret different things different ways. That doesn't mean it's right. There are rules about women teaching men and women in church, but still people do it. The Bible has alot to say about this "speaking in tounges," and almost any who believe that have it worng. (read the passages in the Greek context and you will see). There is a right and wrong way to interpret something.. Though there are other grounds. Like Calvinism and such, but somehtings are blatently wrong...

And if I pick the wrong religion and wind up in Hell anyway? I have no baseline for which religion is the "truth" and which ones are false. So, I look at them all equally.

But I'm not going to buy into a religion out of fear of punishment. Doing so seem extremely foolish and paranoid, to me.
So true, but there are ways you can tell.

A Big-Footer? Are you implying I believe in Big Foot?
LOL... no


I have nothing against Christianity and am not going to go out of my way to disprove it. I'd much rather try to understand it, which is what I am doing on these forums.
Hmmmm.... I'm not sure that's a good thing. I have found there are a good deal (I won't cite any) or people hear that don't even know truely what the Bible says.... Maybe try CGR some of the best Theologians and Christians I know of that reside on the web... Or maybe check out the Puritian forums

Last edited by Lyle; 28th November 2003 at 03:31 PM.
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  #74  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Actually, I didn't see it was that old, when I posted it..
Actually, if I were you, I would not post anything unless you are familar with it and are posting it to give your point Oooomph. I would not post anything about stellar mechanics, if you are not even sure what it is. Just some friendly advice. I see people come here all the time and cut and paste from "Dr." Dino. Trouble is, the info they paste has been falsified YEAR ago. In some cases 140 years ago! When people do that it already turns 1/2 of us off. If you want to bring people to Christ, using bad science and falsified data, is not the way.
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None of the gods love wisdom or desire to become wise, for they are wise already -- nor if someone else is wise, do they love wisdom. Neither do the ignorant love wisdom or desire to become wise; for this is the grievous thing about ignorance, that those who are neither good nor beautiful nor sensible think they are good enough, and do not desire that which they do not think they are lacking.

Plato, Symposium 203E-204A

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  #75  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyle
You are right.... Nobodies going anywhere in this thread.. I need to go back to the drawing board and study a bit more before a reattempt to debunk any theory of Evolution.... But you are the first who has challenaged me in such a way as wrong and to re-research..
You could go somewhere but you have to be willing to learn AND listen. Lyle do you realize that ANY of us here would LOVE to be able to debunk the theory of evolution? If it was that easy it would have been done LONG ago. Lyle-Evolution has Libraries full of data and pictres. If anyone could falsify (I mean really falsify it) that person would become very famous and VERY wealthy. Please remember that The Big Bang and Evolution are not the same thing. Argue one or the other. Evolution is not a religion or faith. It actually has tangible evidence!!
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None of the gods love wisdom or desire to become wise, for they are wise already -- nor if someone else is wise, do they love wisdom. Neither do the ignorant love wisdom or desire to become wise; for this is the grievous thing about ignorance, that those who are neither good nor beautiful nor sensible think they are good enough, and do not desire that which they do not think they are lacking.

Plato, Symposium 203E-204A


Last edited by LorentzHA; 28th November 2003 at 03:43 PM.
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  #76  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LorentzHA
Yes Lyle I have read it TWICE -cover to cover. I was born and raised catholic. I left Catholocism (not because I was against it but because I wanted to spiritually branch out) I then went to a Church of Christ, here in Texas. I worshipped there for a couple years until the ignorance became too much to handle. Picture a Bubba pulling up to church in his pick-up truck spitting Copenhagen out the window and then having another Bubba in Bible study instruct the first one to ask non believers if they have ever heard of the Second Law of Thermo as was way to quell an argument. Pretty dangerous, I thought to whip out science terms and have no idea what they mean. When they kept ref. to the Solar System as the Galaxy I knew it was time for me to fly. Recently I have been visiting Synagogue with some school mates. At 33 I have studied religion, wuite a bit from the inside looking out and vice versa! The Jews do not believe Genesis to be literal and it is THEIR book-go figure!
One can read the Bible, and not understand. For the natural man cannot understand spiritual things. Whether you are truely saved or not, I cannot tell. But don't let that change your mind about Christianity.... yes, there may be some that are unlearned. But ther are some that know a GREAT deal. I'm no professional scienctist, but I'm sure I probally know more about Theology then most, we're not all gifted in the same area.

It seems in all your studies of religion they didn't teach you much, the Old testiment was fully created till later (at least as we know it now). The Jews had the words of the prophets and those of the law, but as we know wasn't reated till many years later... But it is given to all men, any who will believe. The Bible is written to Christians, since those who are not saved cannot truely understand it.... Just as many Jews will deny, but I pulled ut over 21 pages of Prophcies of Christ from the Old Testiment...

The Oldtestiment was written for our learning and edification. because those who do not learn from the mistakes of history, are doomed to repeat them. Yet those who are Christians and have believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and Him crucified, it is for them. They are the ones with the hope of eternal life, because they are the children of God.


But I didn't ask if you read it, I asked if you studied it.... There is a hugh difference..
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  #77  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Again I say, you couldn't have hit it any "wronger " The Bible does have rights and wrongs.. And yes, many people may interpret different things different ways. That doesn't mean it's right. There are rules about women teaching men and women in church, but still people do it. The Bible has alot to say about this "speaking in tounges," and almost any who believe that have it worng. (read the passages in the Greek context and you will see). There is a right and wrong way to interpret something.. Though there are other grounds. Like Calvinism and such, but somehtings are blatently wrong...
Try applying those last four words to yourself. Then maybe you'll realize where I'm coming from.

So true, but there are ways you can tell.
Unfortunately, the only way to determine The Truth(tm) seems to be entirely subjective. And while you may be convinced you have The Truth(tm), I can find other people who think differently and are convinced they have The Truth(tm). Which is why I'm believe that the most likely scenario is they are all wrong.
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Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
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  #78  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LorentzHA
You could go somewhere but you have to be willing to learn AND listen. Lyle do you realize that ANY of us here would LOVE to be able to debunk the theory of evolution? If it was that easy it would have been done LONG ago. Lyle-Evolution has Libraries full of data and pictres. If anyone could falsify (mean really falsify it) that person would become very famous and VERY wealthy. Please remember that The Big Bang and Evolution are not the same thing. Argue one or the other. Ecvolution is not a religion or faith. It actually has tangible evidence!!
Haha, I suppose you are right... It has changed much from what I was taught i guess (when it first was thought up). But yeah, I may take you all up on that offer, but I'll read around on the web, and on updated articles and see..... I think the first thign i need to do is get a grasp on what the Big Bang is, and not just what I have been taught.... But thank you all
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  #79  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:49 PM
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If you want my advice, ignore the web for now. Go read those books, they are published and reviewed by the established scientific community. You'll avoid all the nonsense that way.
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  #80  
Old 28th November 2003, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Haha, I suppose you are right... It has changed much from what I was taught i guess (when it first was thought up). But yeah, I may take you all up on that offer, but I'll read around on the web, and on updated articles and see..... I think the first thign i need to do is get a grasp on what the Big Bang is, and not just what I have been taught.... But thank you all
that's cool, start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
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