| Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed. |
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13th April 2009, 11:45 PM
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 | | Join Date: 8th March 2007 Location: this side of eternity
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman  sorry, I'm on a work computer, so I can't play movies. Could you give me the gist?
Yeah, he declared that America is not a JUST a Christian nation and proceeded to mock Christianity and the Bible by asking what part of the Bible should we follow because he sees a contradiction. Possible I guess... of course, this does rather require one to stop treating all of Islam as an homogenous mass with unified intent and purpose, which a great many of the "Obama is a secret Muslim!" crowd seem to do.
Do their teachings teach them that Christians and Jews are infidels who need to convert or die?
If so, anyone who follows Islam does have a "unified intent and purpose." What about them?
1. The human rights of Americans are not any more important than the human rights of non-Americans (see that "Americans have a tendency to come off as arrogant" comment earlier? You just demonstrated my point)
2. Very few of the detainees at Guantanamo were actually there for crimes against Americans
3. A great many of those at Guantonamo were there as a result of suspension of reasonable due process and were, by any reasonable standard, illegally and wrongfully detained. Imprisoning actual terrorists is a GOOD thing, but imprisoning people indefinitely merely because they are SUSPECTED (in some cases, on very flimsy evidence) of being terrorists is a BAD thing. Indeed, it is precisely the sort of act we would expect FROM the terrorists, and we're supposed to be the good guys. Imprisoning innocent people without trial or recourse to appeal is not an act of the good guys.
Maybe we should stick 'em back on the battlefield, give 'em back their weapons, and then kill those who don't drop their weapons but intend to kill the "infidels". Tell me... why is it that it is acceptible for the USA (the only country ever to have used nukes in wartime, and against a civilian population, no less) to have nuclear weapons facilities, but it is NOT OK for Iran? And further, who says that America should be the arbiter of who is and isn't welcome in the nuclear arms club?Has he? Where? When? Context? How reliable is your translation?
Maybe the fact that we've signed nuclear peace treaties and Iran has threatened Israel with their first nuke they develop? Showdown with Nuclear Iran: Radical Islam's Messianic Mission to Destroy Israel and Cripple the United States: Michael Evans: Amazon.ca: Jerome R. Coris: Books "Product Description
A terrifying examination of how Iran's president (a radical Shiite zealot) believes he has a "divine mission" to usher in the apocalypse and thereby herald the second coming of a Shia Muslim messiah-and how he is trying to achieve this by building his arsenal and threatening to cripple America and destroy Israel in a nuclear holocaust. " Do you see any difference between willingly, freely consenting to become a Christian, and being beaten, humiliated and generally abused into claiming to be a Christian?
Who says that's how it happened? Would someone who grew up a Muslim, and then converted to Christianity as a slave contribute to the shaping of that country as a Muslim or as a Christian, int erms of thinking and ideals? Possibly a semantic point, but I honestly don't have a problem with acknowledging that some of the people who built America were either Muslim or Muslim influenced.
No, the Islamic religion had no part in shaping this nation.  |
13th April 2009, 11:57 PM
| | Legend
| | Join Date: 8th March 2007 Location: this side of eternity
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman I'm not seeing the destruction of the Church, or God destroying Iran's military anywhere here...
But what you do see are those that oppose abortion, believe in Biblical prophecy, and think the Government shouldn't run our lives are labeled "extremists" and "threats" to security. Those are CHRISTIANS! A good number of them are protesting the government on Wednesday the 15th.
Iran's military intends to put on a gigantic military exercise this week (18th) which they are preparing for so a surprise attack on Israel before the 18th might be unexpected. What if they use an EMP to knock out Israel's electricity/defenses and then invade?
1. Church removed as...
2. the Northern army invades as...
3. there's a massive earthquake, sun/moon darken, then...
4. God destroys Northern army with hail, blood, and fire.
5. Anti-christ steps up and reigns for 42 months a few days later.
I think that's what the Wilkerson "urgent warning" is describing which I'm giving until the 16th. The "earth-shattering calamity" that is "so frightening it causes everyone to tremble" could be #1-4.
Joel 2 describes it this way: Joe 2:1Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand-- Joe 2:2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come.
... Joe 2:10Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
Then again, I could be dead wrong.
Last edited by HisdaughterJen; 14th April 2009 at 12:03 AM.
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14th April 2009, 12:00 AM
|  | Senior Contributor
    
| | Join Date: 11th August 2006
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | Yeah, he declared that America is not a JUST a Christian nation and proceeded to mock Christianity and the Bible by asking what part of the Bible should we follow because he sees a contradiction.
America isn't just a Christian nation, its made up of people of many faiths. And asking which part of the Bible is correct where there are contradictions doesn't seem mocking to me... I mean, the contradictions are there, plain to see so how is that mocking? A statement of fact, no matter how uncomfortable, is never insolent. Do their teachings teach them that Christians and Jews are infidels who need to convert or die?
If so, anyone who follows Islam does have a "unified intent and purpose."
Except that "all jews and Christians must convert or die" is NOT a teaching of all, or even the majority, of Muslims. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, quoting the relevent sura from the Koran that says what you claim will be sufficient. Maybe we should stick 'em back on the battlefield, give 'em back their weapons, and then kill those who don't drop their weapons but intend to kill the "infidels".
How about all those that didn't come from battlefields, never held weapons, and never took part in any action against "infidels"?
I mean, I know it would be convenient to imagine everyone at Guantanamo is a hardened Al Queda extremist with incontrivertible evidence of his guilt, apprehended actually making bombs with "die Christian scum" written on every explosive, but it just ain't so. Maybe the fact that we've signed nuclear peace treaties and Iran has threatened Israel with their first nuke they develop?
Sounds like special pleading to me. Further, I don't know that Iran HAS ACTUALLY MADE A THREAT THE WAY YOU SAY THEY HAVE. (oops, sorry caps)
Sounds very interesting... but just because some guy wrote in a book doesn't make it true. How come like, you know, real, professional inteligence analysts and diplomats don't share the same concerns? Who says that's how it happened?
It would be foolish to imagine that it never did. No, the Islamic religion had no part in shaping this nation.
Indeed? (says she who uses Arabic numerals) |
14th April 2009, 12:00 AM
|  | James 1:17
  
| | Join Date: 4th November 2008 Location: United States
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Reps: 112,441,593,711,950,576 (power: 112,441,593,711,957) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be insulting.
Um... you weren't really clear in your post (or maybe I didn't understand you) are you saying you think Obama is the Anti-Christ no matter his skin colour? Or are you saying you don't think he's the Anti Christ anyway? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to clarify.
I'm not saying he is "the" antichrist... but I do believe that he is "an" antichrist because of his beliefs.
There is a difference between an antichrist and the Antichrist.
__________________ The true saint is one who acknowledges that he possesses from God the gift of freedom.
He knows that he will never be cudgelled into obedience nor wheedled like a petulant child into doing the will of God; he knows that these methods are unworthy both of God and of his own soul.
He knows he is free to make any choice he will, and with that knowledge he chooses forever the blessed will of God.” AW Tozer |
14th April 2009, 12:02 AM
| | James 1:17
| | Join Date: 4th November 2008 Location: United States
Posts: 3,450
Blessings: 5,404,522 My Mood
Reps: 112,441,593,711,950,576 (power: 112,441,593,711,957) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman I'm not seeing the destruction of the Church
horseman, the destruction of the Church is not going to be sudden and visible... it's going to be subtle, hidden, and cloaked from the world.
__________________ The true saint is one who acknowledges that he possesses from God the gift of freedom.
He knows that he will never be cudgelled into obedience nor wheedled like a petulant child into doing the will of God; he knows that these methods are unworthy both of God and of his own soul.
He knows he is free to make any choice he will, and with that knowledge he chooses forever the blessed will of God.” AW Tozer |
14th April 2009, 12:05 AM
| | Senior Contributor
| | Join Date: 11th August 2006
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | But what you do see are those that oppose abortion, believe in Biblical prophecy, and think the Government shouldn't run our lives are labeled "extremists" and "threats" to security. Those are CHRISTIANS! A good number of them are protesting the government on Wednesday the 15th.
So, what, you think Christian extremists should be given a free pass because they happen to be Christian?
Destroying the Church, to me, means, well, destroying the Church. You know, making Christianity illegal, making worship illegal, targeting people for villification because of their religion. Now, you may see the investigation and repression of certain potentially violent extremists as unnecesarily draconian, indeed, in some cases I might even agree with you. But the fact remains it is the potential for violence that is making these people and groups subject to closer scrutiny, not their religion.
When Obama tries to classify the Catholic church as an "extremist organisation", then I'll be worried.
I'd also note that classing a group as extremist is NOT the same as destroying it. |
14th April 2009, 12:07 AM
| | Senior Contributor
| | Join Date: 11th August 2006
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Super Kal horseman, the destruction of the Church is not going to be sudden and visible... it's going to be subtle, hidden, and cloaked from the world.
How are you going to subtley cloak the destruction of a billion strong organisation without people noticing?
*under my breath* oh please oh please oh PLEASE don't say anything about "TRUE Christians" at this point |
14th April 2009, 12:10 AM
| | Legend
| | Join Date: 8th March 2007 Location: this side of eternity
Posts: 16,139
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | | Lighthorseman, see post #512. That's what could happen this week. |
14th April 2009, 12:15 AM
| | James 1:17
| | Join Date: 4th November 2008 Location: United States
Posts: 3,450
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Reps: 112,441,593,711,950,576 (power: 112,441,593,711,957) | | | you can see the beginning of it right now... plus, the majority of people simply don't care anymore...
they're more busy with celebrities, movies, reality tv shows, and if something does come up, they have tv shows and commentators that supposedly "debunk" everything, and then they arrest people like Alex Jones for speaking the truth about what's really going on in the world, and then you have a president that woos everyone with pretty sounding words like "new age", "global citizenship", "global currency", and "peace and safety"...
you simple dumb down and brainwash the people into thinking nothing bad is going to happen, and then secretly go for the jugular... it's not a pretty thing to see...
20 years ago, George Bush senior was one of the first people to talk of a '"New World Order" and people freaked out over it...
today, Obama talks of a "global regime", and people applaud it...
Satan is the Master of deception. He's been seting this up for the past 2-3 decades, and it's only going to get worse, and people will be so brainwashed into follow it, they won't know what happened until it's too late, and by that time, they won't care, because a certain individual will be on the scene who posesses supernatural powers, and proclaims himself to be Jesus Christ, and people will fall for it
__________________ The true saint is one who acknowledges that he possesses from God the gift of freedom.
He knows that he will never be cudgelled into obedience nor wheedled like a petulant child into doing the will of God; he knows that these methods are unworthy both of God and of his own soul.
He knows he is free to make any choice he will, and with that knowledge he chooses forever the blessed will of God.” AW Tozer |
14th April 2009, 12:22 AM
| | James 1:17
| | Join Date: 4th November 2008 Location: United States
Posts: 3,450
Blessings: 5,404,522 My Mood
Reps: 112,441,593,711,950,576 (power: 112,441,593,711,957) | | | believe it or not, the government is using chemicals and what not to numb people and their thinking capability to mush... I know it sounds like a science fiction fantasy movie, but it's the truth.
Satan knows what to use to trick people into following him... He did it even to Christianity when he created all of these different denominations, and especially the Christian cults that we see today. He is at the very core of what's happening in our country and in our world today
__________________ The true saint is one who acknowledges that he possesses from God the gift of freedom.
He knows that he will never be cudgelled into obedience nor wheedled like a petulant child into doing the will of God; he knows that these methods are unworthy both of God and of his own soul.
He knows he is free to make any choice he will, and with that knowledge he chooses forever the blessed will of God.” AW Tozer | | |
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