| Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed. |
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13th April 2009, 10:54 PM
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | 5. he's mocked the Bible and Christianity.
He has? 5. he's got some kind of personal problem with Pakistan
Pakistan being a Muslim country, doesn't this rather discredit your thesis?
Looks more to me like he has a respect for due process and human rights, rather than being a supporter of Islam. 6. wants to sit down with Iran
What do you think is preferable to this? 9. crediting Islam for shaping America
As discussed elsewhere, did Muslim slaves NOT contribute to the shaping of America? |
13th April 2009, 10:57 PM
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman  If arrogance and narcissism were all it took to be considered to be in the running for the Anti-Christ, there are one or two posters on this very forum I could see as being right up there!
Also added to the list of suspected Anti-Christs... Mikhael Gorbachev, Saddam Hussein, the Ayatollah Khomeni and Pauline Hanson.
Oh, and here's a fun website... Know Your Antichrist Candidates: King Juan Carlos I Armageddon Cocktail Hour
Seriously, so many people have been put forward as "absolutely definately gunna be the Anti-Christ, no really I'm serious this time!" (and quite often, the same "prophet" has revised their predictions and updated the person who is definately the antiChrist when it becomes apparent the last candidate wasn't it, e.g. Gorbachev becomes Khomeni becomes Saddam Hussein becomes Bin Laden as the Anti-Christ in the same "prophetic" book, changed in each subsequent eddition as the previous incumbent becomes irrelevant) that I simply can't take ANY claim about a person being ZOMG! the ANTICHRIST! seriously. Every claim of identifying the AntiChrist uses the same semi religious, vaguely worded, highly subjective interpretative language to make their claim about who is the Beasdt THIS week, and, without exception, every one of them has been shown false.
When an actual world leader leads a massive field Army to a set piece battle at Meggido, or shows up with 7 heads and all those horns and so on, well, then I'll be more persuaded. But so far all the claims about anyone being the anti-christ seem to be exclusively post hoc justifications for why someone doesn't like someone else.
Well, of all the characteristics that the Bible lists in regards to the anti-christ, his pride/arrogance is listed repeatedly. Daniel 7, Daniel 11, Rev 13, 2 Thess 2 all mention his pride and arrogance Dan 11:36" The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. Dan 11:37He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. Dan 7:8"While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully. Rev 13:5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 2Th 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The anti-christ won't be revealed until the church is removed and the Northern armies are destroyed.  |
13th April 2009, 10:59 PM
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13th April 2009, 11:01 PM
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen Well, of all the characteristics that the Bible lists in regards to the anti-christ, his pride/arrogance is listed repeatedly. Daniel 7, Daniel 11, Rev 13, 2 Thess 2 all mention his pride and arrogance Dan 11:36" The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. Dan 11:37He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. Dan 7:8"While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully. Rev 13:5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 2Th 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The anti-christ won't be revealed until the church is removed and the Northern armies are destroyed.
Right, so, the AC will be arrogant... got that. But, um... name an American Preident who doesn't fit that description?
And Sure, I'll even accept someone as a likely Anti-Christ when he actively participates in destroying the Church, or destroys some significant Northern Armies... but I see no signs of either occuring in the near future |
13th April 2009, 11:06 PM
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman He has? Pakistan being a Muslim country, doesn't this rather discredit your thesis?
Since there are factions of Islam, it may be indicative of which faction he supports. Looks more to me like he has a respect for due process and human rights, rather than being a supporter of Islam.
What about the human rights of the Americans they killed? What do you think is preferable to this?
Removal of their nuclear weapons factories. Ahmadinijad has STATED that he intends to cause chaos (start a war) to bring in the Mahdi. As discussed elsewhere, did Muslim slaves NOT contribute to the shaping of America?
Well, not as muslims. In fact, they would've adopted Christianity...just like the Aborigines in your country. |
13th April 2009, 11:07 PM
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Reps: 112,441,593,711,950,576 (power: 112,441,593,711,957) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman I really don't think Obama is the anti-Christ. He's just another politician.
I can't help but suspect that an awful lot of the "Obama is the anti-Christ" theorising going around is a thinly veiled excuse for racism. I mean, we've had Democrat presidents before, we've had relatively unknown people become president before, and God knows we've had some really really bad presidents before, but I've never seen anyone claiming that Dubya, Clinton, Kennedy or Nixon were the anti-Christ, no matter what their excesses or messes were. The only difference I can see between Obama and any of the others is his skin colour.
So, if you want to criticise the guy, be my guest. I'll be criticising him right alongside you based on the issues. But lets not try to hype ourselves into a religious frenzy over the guy for no better reason than his skin colour, huh? It makes us all look bad.
I'm extremely proud to see an African American become the President of the United States, and am ecstatic to see this country look beyond the gates of racism and look past a man's skin color...
for me, his skin color has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my reasoning.
Period.
I'd appreciate it if you let that sink in a little while before you make grandiose assumptions about what I hold to. I did not like what Bush Jr. did to this country either.
first and foremost, I believe in the Bible first, and the United States Constitution second, and for the past few terms, they both have been suppressed.
I apologize if this sounds a bit aggressive, but you touched a nerve, and it was insulting
__________________ The true saint is one who acknowledges that he possesses from God the gift of freedom.
He knows that he will never be cudgelled into obedience nor wheedled like a petulant child into doing the will of God; he knows that these methods are unworthy both of God and of his own soul.
He knows he is free to make any choice he will, and with that knowledge he chooses forever the blessed will of God.” AW Tozer |
13th April 2009, 11:13 PM
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Reps: 40,143,535,222,134,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LightHorseman Right, so, the AC will be arrogant... got that. But, um... name an American Preident who doesn't fit that description?
And Sure, I'll even accept someone as a likely Anti-Christ when he actively participates in destroying the Church, or destroys some significant Northern Armies... but I see no signs of either occuring in the near future
Here's a start: Homeland Security on guard for 'right-wing extremists' http://images.logicsix.com/DHS_RWE.pdf
...and he shows up AFTER GOD has destroyed the northern armies which include Persia (Iran) Iran Plans Massive Military Demonstration - News Briefs - Israel National News Iran plans largest air show ever | Iran news | Jerusalem Post |
13th April 2009, 11:35 PM
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen sorry, I'm on a work computer, so I can't play movies. Could you give me the gist? Since there are factions of Islam, it may be indicative of which faction he supports.
Possible I guess... of course, this does rather require one to stop treating all of Islam as an homogenous mass with unified intent and purpose, which a great many of the "Obama is a secret Muslim!" crowd seem to do. What about the human rights of the Americans they killed?
What about them?
1. The human rights of Americans are not any more important than the human rights of non-Americans (see that "Americans have a tendency to come off as arrogant" comment earlier? You just demonstrated my point)
2. Very few of the detainees at Guantanamo were actually there for crimes against Americans
3. A great many of those at Guantonamo were there as a result of suspension of reasonable due process and were, by any reasonable standard, illegally and wrongfully detained. Imprisoning actual terrorists is a GOOD thing, but imprisoning people indefinitely merely because they are SUSPECTED (in some cases, on very flimsy evidence) of being terrorists is a BAD thing. Indeed, it is precisely the sort of act we would expect FROM the terrorists, and we're supposed to be the good guys. Imprisoning innocent people without trial or recourse to appeal is not an act of the good guys. Removal of their nuclear weapons factories.
Tell me... why is it that it is acceptible for the USA (the only country ever to have used nukes in wartime, and against a civilian population, no less) to have nuclear weapons facilities, but it is NOT OK for Iran? And further, who says that America should be the arbiter of who is and isn't welcome in the nuclear arms club? Ahmadinijad has STATED that he intends to cause chaos (start a war) to bring in the Mahdi.
Has he? Where? When? Context? How reliable is your translation? Well, not as muslims. In fact, they would've adopted Christianity...just like the Aborigines in your country.
Do you see any difference between willingly, freely consenting to become a Christian, and being beaten, humiliated and generally abused into claiming to be a Christian?
Would someone who grew up a Muslim, and then converted to Christianity as a slave contribute to the shaping of that country as a Muslim or as a Christian, int erms of thinking and ideals? Possibly a semantic point, but I honestly don't have a problem with acknowledging that some of the people who built America were either Muslim or Muslim influenced. |
13th April 2009, 11:37 PM
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Super Kal I'm extremely proud to see an African American become the President of the United States, and am ecstatic to see this country look beyond the gates of racism and look past a man's skin color...
for me, his skin color has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my reasoning.
Period.
I'd appreciate it if you let that sink in a little while before you make grandiose assumptions about what I hold to. I did not like what Bush Jr. did to this country either.
first and foremost, I believe in the Bible first, and the United States Constitution second, and for the past few terms, they both have been suppressed.
I apologize if this sounds a bit aggressive, but you touched a nerve, and it was insulting
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be insulting.
Um... you weren't really clear in your post (or maybe I didn't understand you) are you saying you think Obama is the Anti-Christ no matter his skin colour? Or are you saying you don't think he's the Anti Christ anyway? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to clarify. |
13th April 2009, 11:38 PM
| | Senior Contributor
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Reps: 178,751,386,065,373,056 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen
I'm not seeing the destruction of the Church, or God destroying Iran's military anywhere here... | | |
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