To reiterate:
"Did it not originally start at the whim of a king"...
No. As Catherineanne wrote already, the Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It predates Henry VIII and did not start with him: that it did is an oft-repeated canard.
"Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature"
Neither Henry, nor the Anglican church, ever "split" from the Catholic Church. As JasonV wrote in the first response, Anglicans ARE Catholic, as well as being Protestant. What they are NOT, as MintyAngel wrote, is under the authority of the Pope. The Pope does not define the Catholic Church.
I think its important we define some key words here. We throw them around as knowledgable anglicans, but honestly to most of Christianity Catholic means pope and Protestant means baptist.
We need to do soem explaining i think, but... i readily admit im not the best to do it.
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Yep, both Anglicans and Old Catholics don't come under the influence of the Pope.
That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
__________________ "The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder" - Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, par. 58
"Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites." -Vatican II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, par. 36
To reiterate:
"Did it not originally start at the whim of a king"...
No. As Catherineanne wrote already, the Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It predates Henry VIII and did not start with him: that it did is an oft-repeated canard.
"Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature"
Neither Henry, nor the Anglican church, ever "split" from the Catholic Church. As JasonV wrote in the first response, Anglicans ARE Catholic, as well as being Protestant. What they are NOT, as MintyAngel wrote, is under the authority of the Pope. The Pope does not define the Catholic Church.
Thank you.
I can see that I ned to read up on church history ... does anybody have any useful (and not too heavy) reading suggestions?
Originally Posted by Colabomb
We need to do soem explaining i think, but... i readily admit im not the best to do it.
Originally Posted by LivingWordUnity
That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
I look forwards to reading more explanations from you all.
I am eager to learn!
__________________ For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
Two big differences as far as I'm concerned. First, Anglicans and Old Catholics maintain Apostolic Succession. This is required to perform valid sacraments. Secondly, Anglicans and Old Catholics are Altar centered Churches, as opposed to Pulpit centered Churches. Our focus is the Eucharist, not the sermon.
Now, this is just my opinion, but it's the main reason why I'm here, and not there.
__________________ "Look with the eyes of Thy love upon our manifold imperfections and pardon all our shortcomings, that we may be filled with the brightness of the everlasting light and become the unspotted mirror of Thy power and the image of Thy goodness."
Thanks for all your replies. They have been a real eye-opener for me.
How then, theologically speaking, does the Anglican Church define itself?
The Anglican churches define themselves as Protestant but also as retaining aspects of the historic Catholic faith which other Protestants have rejected. That is why it is common to say that we are both Protestant and Catholic. More specifically, we embraced the main principles of the Protestant Reformation--the primacy of Scripture, Salvation by Faith through Grace, and Christ as our only Mediator and Advocate (all of which were rejections of the Medieval Catholic positions). But the church did not reject the episcopal system or Apostolic Succession, the historic liturgy, the Real Presence, or the sacraments as historically administered.
Did it not originally start at the whim of a king who refused to bow under the authority of the Pope, because he would not grant him the divorce he desired? Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature ... where they??
No it did not start under Henry who, BTW, was an opponent of the Reformation. The Church was 1500 years old the time of Henry and merely re-asserted an earlier independence from Rome because of the impasse between Henry and Rome on the matter of his marriage.
Two big differences as far as I'm concerned. First, Anglicans and Old Catholics maintain Apostolic Succession. This is required to perform valid sacraments. Secondly, Anglicans and Old Catholics are Altar centered Churches, as opposed to Pulpit centered Churches. Our focus is the Eucharist, not the sermon.
Now, this is just my opinion, but it's the main reason why I'm here, and not there.
Well, the main problem is that the question was based upon an incorrect assumption, i.e. that Anglicans and Old Catholics are Protestants ("I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants")
While it may be said that Anglicans are Protestant, Old Catholics are not and don't claim to be Protestant. The reason we are here together is because, as previously stated, the OCs had nowhere else to go on CF and also there is always the connection between us of a mutual agreement on intercommunion going back 3/4 of a century. It did not, however, mean that we believe alike on everything.
While it may be said that Anglicans are Protestant, Old Catholics are not and don't claim to be Protestant. The reason we are here together is because, as previously stated, the OCs had nowhere else to go on CF and also there is always the connection between us of a mutual agreement on intercommunion going back 3/4 of a century. It did not, however, mean that we believe alike on everything.
I believe you are mistaken. Old Catholics are protestants in the sense of protesting the position of the Bishop of Rome. I consider Anglicans in the same sense.
__________________ "Look with the eyes of Thy love upon our manifold imperfections and pardon all our shortcomings, that we may be filled with the brightness of the everlasting light and become the unspotted mirror of Thy power and the image of Thy goodness."
That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
Please don't forget my friend it also applies to the Orthodox many of whom regard the Roman Catholic Church as the first "protestant" Church. They recognize the Bishop of Rome as the first among Equals but certainly not in the manner defined by Unam Sanctum.
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Thank you.
I can see that I ned to read up on church history ... does anybody have any useful (and not too heavy) reading suggestions?
I look forwards to reading more explanations from you all.
I am eager to learn!
As you will find Anglicans hold a lot of different views, probably because we refuse to strongly define a lot of things such as the Real Presence. We accept that Christ is truly present but we do not define how He is present. Some see this as both a weakness and a strength. At least that is how I see it.
As for reading Church History. If you are interested specifically in Anglican Church history I recommend Neil's "Anglicanism".
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