| Scripture,Tradition,Reason-Anglican & Old Catholic The forum for Anglican, Anglo-Catholic and Episcopal churches. |
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15th July 2008, 09:05 PM
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 | | Join Date: 24th March 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Reps: 54,596,350,786 (power: 54,596,362) | | | To reiterate:
"Did it not originally start at the whim of a king"...
No. As Catherineanne wrote already, the Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It predates Henry VIII and did not start with him: that it did is an oft-repeated canard.
"Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature"
Neither Henry, nor the Anglican church, ever "split" from the Catholic Church. As JasonV wrote in the first response, Anglicans ARE Catholic, as well as being Protestant. What they are NOT, as MintyAngel wrote, is under the authority of the Pope. The Pope does not define the Catholic Church. |
15th July 2008, 10:48 PM
|  | I seek sin like a moth towards flame, save me God.
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We need to do soem explaining i think, but... i readily admit im not the best to do it.
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16th July 2008, 03:18 AM
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Reps: 281,066,741,495,701,312 (power: 281,066,741,495,709) | | Originally Posted by MintyAngel  Yep, both Anglicans and Old Catholics don't come under the influence of the Pope. That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
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“For neither does he [the Devil] seek those whom he has already subdued, nor does he take the trouble to overthrow those whom he has already made his own. The foe and enemy of the Church despises and passes by those whom he has alienated from the Church, and led without as captives and conquered; he goes on to harass those in whom he sees Christ dwell.” – Saint Cyprian (Epistle 56)
Pope Benedict XVI is innocent |
16th July 2008, 04:53 AM
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Reps: 700,658,815,010 (power: 700,658,823) | | Originally Posted by pmcleanj To reiterate:
"Did it not originally start at the whim of a king"...
No. As Catherineanne wrote already, the Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It predates Henry VIII and did not start with him: that it did is an oft-repeated canard.
"Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature"
Neither Henry, nor the Anglican church, ever "split" from the Catholic Church. As JasonV wrote in the first response, Anglicans ARE Catholic, as well as being Protestant. What they are NOT, as MintyAngel wrote, is under the authority of the Pope. The Pope does not define the Catholic Church.
Thank you. 
I can see that I ned to read up on church history ... does anybody have any useful (and not too heavy) reading suggestions? Originally Posted by Colabomb We need to do soem explaining i think, but... i readily admit im not the best to do it. Originally Posted by LivingWordUnity That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
I look forwards to reading more explanations from you all.
I am eager to learn! 
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For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39) |
16th July 2008, 02:20 PM
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Reps: 18,944,763,352,946,140 (power: 18,944,763,352,955) | | Originally Posted by LivingWordUnity I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
Two big differences as far as I'm concerned. First, Anglicans and Old Catholics maintain Apostolic Succession. This is required to perform valid sacraments. Secondly, Anglicans and Old Catholics are Altar centered Churches, as opposed to Pulpit centered Churches. Our focus is the Eucharist, not the sermon.
Now, this is just my opinion, but it's the main reason why I'm here, and not there.
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16th July 2008, 02:37 PM
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Reps: 445,730,889,197,475,072 (power: 445,730,889,197,502) | | Originally Posted by glo1 Thanks for all your replies. They have been a real eye-opener for me.
How then, theologically speaking, does the Anglican Church define itself? The Anglican churches define themselves as Protestant but also as retaining aspects of the historic Catholic faith which other Protestants have rejected. That is why it is common to say that we are both Protestant and Catholic. More specifically, we embraced the main principles of the Protestant Reformation--the primacy of Scripture, Salvation by Faith through Grace, and Christ as our only Mediator and Advocate (all of which were rejections of the Medieval Catholic positions). But the church did not reject the episcopal system or Apostolic Succession, the historic liturgy, the Real Presence, or the sacraments as historically administered.
Did it not originally start at the whim of a king who refused to bow under the authority of the Pope, because he would not grant him the divorce he desired? Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature ... where they??  No it did not start under Henry who, BTW, was an opponent of the Reformation. The Church was 1500 years old the time of Henry and merely re-asserted an earlier independence from Rome because of the impasse between Henry and Rome on the matter of his marriage.  |
16th July 2008, 02:43 PM
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Reps: 445,730,889,197,475,072 (power: 445,730,889,197,502) | | Originally Posted by JasonV Two big differences as far as I'm concerned. First, Anglicans and Old Catholics maintain Apostolic Succession. This is required to perform valid sacraments. Secondly, Anglicans and Old Catholics are Altar centered Churches, as opposed to Pulpit centered Churches. Our focus is the Eucharist, not the sermon.
Now, this is just my opinion, but it's the main reason why I'm here, and not there. Well, the main problem is that the question was based upon an incorrect assumption, i.e. that Anglicans and Old Catholics are Protestants ("I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants")
While it may be said that Anglicans are Protestant, Old Catholics are not and don't claim to be Protestant. The reason we are here together is because, as previously stated, the OCs had nowhere else to go on CF and also there is always the connection between us of a mutual agreement on intercommunion going back 3/4 of a century. It did not, however, mean that we believe alike on everything. |
16th July 2008, 04:39 PM
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Reps: 18,944,763,352,946,140 (power: 18,944,763,352,955) | | Originally Posted by Albion While it may be said that Anglicans are Protestant, Old Catholics are not and don't claim to be Protestant. The reason we are here together is because, as previously stated, the OCs had nowhere else to go on CF and also there is always the connection between us of a mutual agreement on intercommunion going back 3/4 of a century. It did not, however, mean that we believe alike on everything.
I believe you are mistaken. Old Catholics are protestants in the sense of protesting the position of the Bishop of Rome. I consider Anglicans in the same sense.
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16th July 2008, 09:43 PM
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Reps: 2,383,015,851,206,685 (power: 2,383,015,851,224) | | Originally Posted by LivingWordUnity That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.
Please don't forget my friend it also applies to the Orthodox many of whom regard the Roman Catholic Church as the first "protestant" Church. They recognize the Bishop of Rome as the first among Equals but certainly not in the manner defined by Unam Sanctum.
__________________ Just a Christian
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy; O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
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16th July 2008, 09:57 PM
| | Formerly Jtbdad Christian on every board!
| | Join Date: 14th April 2004 Location: Ohio
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Reps: 2,383,015,851,206,685 (power: 2,383,015,851,224) | | Originally Posted by glo1 Thank you.
I can see that I ned to read up on church history ... does anybody have any useful (and not too heavy) reading suggestions?
I look forwards to reading more explanations from you all.
I am eager to learn!
As you will find Anglicans hold a lot of different views, probably because we refuse to strongly define a lot of things such as the Real Presence. We accept that Christ is truly present but we do not define how He is present. Some see this as both a weakness and a strength. At least that is how I see it.
As for reading Church History. If you are interested specifically in Anglican Church history I recommend Neil's "Anglicanism".
For general Chruch history try this.
__________________ Just a Christian
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy; O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
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