Please define Man and Woman.

platzapS · #11 11th July 2008, 02:38 AM

It's easy. There are two species, or "sexes" of the human race. The greater of these is the male sex, endowed with the higher powers of reason and ambition, but also aggression and a need for self-aggrandizement. The lesser of these is the female sex, endowed with higher powers of empathy and a natural yearning for peace, safety, and the nurturing of children, but cursed with petty foolishness and physical weakness.

cantata · #12 11th July 2008, 05:11 AM

When I worked in a department store, I was sometimes required to man a women's fitting rooms. (Or woman them? Who knows?) The fitting room was not actually directly next to the women's swimwear, which was the department it serviced, and in fact most of the floor it was on was devoted to menswear, so it was not uncommon for men to come to our fitting room and for us to have to direct them elsewhere.

One day, someone came to the fitting room, and I couldn't work out if they were a man or a woman. They were trying on a generic pair of black trousers of a brand that makes both men's and women's clothes. I tried asking them a question so I could guess from their voice, but I was unable to figure it out, so eventually I just let them in - it was extremely embarrassing, as I'm sure it was obvious what I was trying to figure out!

This is the best argument for unisex fitting rooms I have ever come across :p

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'm happy to call someone by whatever gender name they prefer for themselves. This is the only time when there's been some difficulty caused to me by gender ambiguity, and that's more the fault of a culture which still insists on sexual segregation than that person's fault.

Athene · #13 11th July 2008, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by platzapS

It's easy. There are two species, or "sexes" of the human race. The greater of these is the male sex, endowed with the higher powers of reason and ambition, but also aggression and a need for self-aggrandizement. The lesser of these is the female sex, endowed with higher powers of empathy and a natural yearning for peace, safety, and the nurturing of children, but cursed with petty foolishness and physical weakness.

Now that's just ridiculous, everyone knows that it is women who are the greater sex, endowed with superior reasoning skills, calmness under extreme stress, flexible and intuitive brains which are equipped to deal with almost any situation. The men have been given greater strength which suits them to their role of lifting heavy things, for example when they're carrying home the shopping or arranging the furniture at home, under the superior direction of women of course

lawtonfogle · #14 11th July 2008, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Athene

Now that's just ridiculous, everyone knows that it is women who are the greater sex, endowed with superior reasoning skills, calmness under extreme stress, flexible and intuitive brains which are equipped to deal with almost any situation. The men have been given greater strength which suits them to their role of lifting heavy things, for example when they're carrying home the shopping or arranging the furniture at home, under the superior direction of women of course

Then I'll think I'll claim having a woman's brain.

jayem · #15 11th July 2008, 10:58 AM

Or the double DNA. This is a fun one, you have two non-identical twins who early on in gestation get combined into one individual with two sets of DNA, and as such could have a fully function (if not for the lack of space due to having both) male and female genitals. Actually, cases of this are so rare I would contend it is possible for there to be one who has both genitalia and can reproduce with either a male or female partner. A case I have seen has one half of the body male and the other half female, straight down the middle.

If we have to name such a person, we should use the proper scientific term for what you're describing--a hermaphroditic chimera. Such a condition is extraordinarily rare--I doubt if more than a few dozen at most have ever been reported. But for practical purposes, the sex of such a person would be whatever sex he/she chooses to live as.

I will say that assuming gender at first (or second) glance is something of a necessity because the majority of people we don't have enough time to get into the details enough to find out if calling her a her or him a him is in fact correct. But in cases concerning sex partners, much less marriage partners, we should be able to invest enough time to solve this, if only we knew how. So how do you purpose to solve this?

To my knowledge, virtually all persons with intersexual conditions will choose to live as one sex. For practical reasons, it obviously makes life much easier. So whatever sex they adopt, is what they are.

Maren · #16 11th July 2008, 04:43 PM

I believe this thread has pointed out that gender is not actually binary.

TheManeki · #17 11th July 2008, 04:53 PM

I'm trying to remember the title and author of an interesting science fiction short story that concerns a society where medicine has just reached the point where sexual reassignment surgery is as easy as (or easier than) cosmetic surgery is today, which allows the female protagonist to experiment with swapping genders, much to the dismay of her husband. Can anyone help me?

While I'm on the topic of gender in science fiction, have you ever read Ursula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness, Lawton? It might prove a good exploration of your OP.

EDIT: I did a little digging, and found out the short story I was trying to remember is John Varley's "Options."

cantata · #18 14th July 2008, 04:41 AM

TheManeki, have you read any Iain M. Banks' science fiction? In some of his books there's an advanced human civilisation called The Culture, in which the humans have been genetically modified to be able to secrete various hormones and chemicals at will. One of the consequences of this is that they can voluntarily change sex without surgery over a period of about six months. This means that many couples do things like taking it in turns to undergo pregnancy and childbirth, or spent some time as a same-sex couple and some as a heterosexual couple. Some people also choose to be perpetually androgynous by balancing their hormone secretion.

TheManeki · #19 14th July 2008, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by cantata

TheManeki, have you read any Iain M. Banks' science fiction? In some of his books there's an advanced human civilisation called The Culture, in which the humans have been genetically modified to be able to secrete various hormones and chemicals at will. One of the consequences of this is that they can voluntarily change sex without surgery over a period of about six months. This means that many couples do things like taking it in turns to undergo pregnancy and childbirth, or spent some time as a same-sex couple and some as a heterosexual couple. Some people also choose to be perpetually androgynous by balancing their hormone secretion.

I haven't, Cantata, but I'll definitely have to check out his stories. Thanks!

cantata · #20 14th July 2008, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by TheManeki

I haven't, Cantata, but I'll definitely have to check out his stories. Thanks!

I recommend Consider Phlebas and The Player of Games if you're interested in books featuring The Culture and its attitude to sex and relationships.

They're also two of my favourite Iain M Banks books anyway.