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Congregation Staff Discussion The Congregation Team handles the Congregation forum categories.

View Poll Results: Members of Faith Groups, please vote on a title.
Faith Groups - leave the title as it is. 41 65.08%
Christian Movements - change the title to this. 22 34.92%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 8th July 2008, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Talmidah View Post
Exactly. "Faith groups" could be any religion, any new-agey philosophy, some Oprah-type faith religion. I think Christian Movements makes so much more sense.
See, but that is why Faith Groups actually does work. WWMC has members of many different beliefs, not all of them Christian (and NO I'm not flaming, I'm referring to people who will tell you that themselves). So unless WWMC were booted to another section (which I'm sure they would not want), I think it's best to keep the word Christian out of the title.

Originally Posted by DeaconDean View Post
I see there is no third option.

I vote neither. I vote to unite the area under one.

Everybody seems to forget that modern religion, Christianity that is, sprang from a movement. All Christian religions sprang from the movement that was started by a "rebel" from Nazareth that would not conform to the standards of the day.

That "movement" was started by a man named Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.

All denominations, all "faith" groups, all groups that consider themselves to have started from a "movement" owe their very existance to the "Jesus Movement" founded in AD 30.

Unite us all back under the umbrella called "Congregations," that is my vote.

God Bless

Till all are one.
OK, if that option were presented I would have voted for it. Getting rid of the Denominations title will appease the RC's and EO's and lessen the controversy overall as well. Sounds like a good solution.

From what I understand, the two sections were created because of moderation issues. It was more strait forward to say only Baptists can post in the Baptist forum. And back in the day you could see the Baptist icon and know they were Baptist. Period. It's always been more complicated for something like Conservative, Liberal, etc. etc. because they're not a denomination. BUT since we no longer have icons, people just post wherever they want and no one really knows which group or denom they affiliate with. So it's pointless now in many ways. I understand the reasoning for the two sections. But without the icons, there isn't much point to them these days, IMHO.

None the less, if it remains as is, I have no complaints. Could be worse. LOL.
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  #22  
Old 8th July 2008, 01:30 PM
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Hmmm, I hadn't realised that they changed "denomination" to "Christian Communities". That kinda implies that the faith group section isn't Christian. Ya, this is getting way too complicated. Stick 'em all back in one group under congregation and I think we'll find that things go more smoothly.
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  #23  
Old 8th July 2008, 02:26 PM
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From what I understand, the two sections were created because of moderation issues. It was more strait forward to say only Baptists can post in the Baptist forum. And back in the day you could see the Baptist icon and know they were Baptist.
Sister, know that I love you as a sister in Christ.

But here is what I was told. It wasn't so much a change from a Moderator position as it was from an upper-upper decision. You see, I have Moderated in the Spirit-Filled/Pentecostal-Charasmatic area as well as the three other areas I now mod in. My family was essencially from 3 different groups. My Dads side of th family was Baptist, my Mothers side was baptist and Presbyterian, and my brother and sister attended a Church of God. So I am familiar with these 3 "groups."

Upper staff, those with the Green "A's" and those with the Blue "A's" are the ones whom I have questioned about this change.

Yes I have taken this "upstairs" because quite frankly, I was upset over the split.

Now here is the reason I was given.

Those "groups" who fit the denominational description were those whose "doctrines" could easily be sorted out under creeds and confessions. Hence "denominations."

And those "groups" who could trace there beginnings to religious "movements" were placed in the "faith" groups. For example, the Spirit-Filled/Pentecostal group can trace their beginnings back to a "holiness movement" from around the early part of the 19th century.

Another example would be as you've said, if your a Baptist, chances are your a Baptist. Likewise, if your a Catholic, your a Catholic. But where "faith" groups also differed from Denominations is that even though I am a Baptist, I can also be considered a Fundamentalist, and I also fall under the "Reformed" classification. Hence, I can also be considered a Semper Reformanda, even though most SR members are Presbyterian.

But my whole point I was trying to communicate was ignored. As I said earlier, nobody seems to consider that we owe our very existance, Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherians, Methodists, Spirit-Filled, etc., to a religious "movement" that was started by a young man, a rebel from Nazareth.

Sure we might belong to different "denominations," but we all seek out like-minded individuals and churches to worship in. We "congregate" together.

And that is the original meaning of the Greek word "ekklhsia."

ekklhsia from the Greek Lexicon means: "a popular assembly, Acts 19:32,39,40; in the NT, the congregation of the children of Israel, Acts 7:38; transfered to the Christian body, of which the congregation of Israel was a figure, the church, 1 Cor. 12:28; Col. 1:18, et al.; a local portiion of the church, a local church, Rom. 16:1, et al,; a Christian congregation, 1 Cor. 14:4, et al."

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, Hendrickson Publishing, Peabody, Mass., 01962, Copyright 1990, ekklhsia, p.127

The definition from greekbible.com, says the exact same thing:

ekklhsia,n {ek-klay-see'-ah}
1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly 1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating 1b) the assembly of the Israelites 1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously 1d) in a Christian sense 1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting 1d2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake 1d3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body 1d4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth 1d5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
http://www.greekbible.com/index.php

It properly means a group or congregation of born-again Christians who just happen to meet in a church. Should it matter whether or not you belong to a Presbyterian church, or a Liberal church? No, but here, it does.

We are properly congregational, not Christian Communities, or even faith groups. We are like-minded individuals who seek out congregations with the same religious convictions as ourselves to worship our Lord and Saviour.

The name "faith groups" never made sense to me because we all stepped out on faith in Jesus Christ didn't we? "Faith groups made it sound like some relied on faith while others relied on denominations.

And the fact still remains, all Christian "denominations" whatever they are, owe their very existance on the movement started by one man, one rebel named Jesus Christ. Who founded Christianity in AD 33!

Unite us back under the "Congregational" umbrella!

God Bless

Till all are one.
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  #24  
Old 8th July 2008, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DeaconDean View Post
I see there is no third option.

I vote neither. I vote to unite the area under one.

Everybody seems to forget that modern religion, Christianity that is, sprang from a movement. All Christian religions sprang from the movement that was started by a "rebel" from Nazareth that would not conform to the standards of the day.

That "movement" was started by a man named Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.

All denominations, all "faith" groups, all groups that consider themselves to have started from a "movement" owe their very existance to the "Jesus Movement" founded in AD 30.

Unite us all back under the umbrella called "Congregations," that is my vote.

God Bless

Till all are one.
I would agree with the deacon.
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  #25  
Old 8th July 2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DeaconDean View Post
Sister, know that I love you as a sister in Christ.

But here is what I was told. It wasn't so much a change from a Moderator position as it was from an upper-upper decision. You see, I have Moderated in the Spirit-Filled/Pentecostal-Charasmatic area as well as the three other areas I now mod in. My family was essencially from 3 different groups. My Dads side of th family was Baptist, my Mothers side was baptist and Presbyterian, and my brother and sister attended a Church of God. So I am familiar with these 3 "groups."

Upper staff, those with the Green "A's" and those with the Blue "A's" are the ones whom I have questioned about this change.

Yes I have taken this "upstairs" because quite frankly, I was upset over the split.

Now here is the reason I was given.

Those "groups" who fit the denominational description were those whose "doctrines" could easily be sorted out under creeds and confessions. Hence "denominations."

And those "groups" who could trace there beginnings to religious "movements" were placed in the "faith" groups. For example, the Spirit-Filled/Pentecostal group can trace their beginnings back to a "holiness movement" from around the early part of the 19th century.

Another example would be as you've said, if your a Baptist, chances are your a Baptist. Likewise, if your a Catholic, your a Catholic. But where "faith" groups also differed from Denominations is that even though I am a Baptist, I can also be considered a Fundamentalist, and I also fall under the "Reformed" classification. Hence, I can also be considered a Semper Reformanda, even though most SR members are Presbyterian.

But my whole point I was trying to communicate was ignored. As I said earlier, nobody seems to consider that we owe our very existance, Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherians, Methodists, Spirit-Filled, etc., to a religious "movement" that was started by a young man, a rebel from Nazareth.

Sure we might belong to different "denominations," but we all seek out like-minded individuals and churches to worship in. We "congregate" together.

And that is the original meaning of the Greek word "ekklhsia."

ekklhsia from the Greek Lexicon means: "a popular assembly, Acts 19:32,39,40; in the NT, the congregation of the children of Israel, Acts 7:38; transfered to the Christian body, of which the congregation of Israel was a figure, the church, 1 Cor. 12:28; Col. 1:18, et al.; a local portiion of the church, a local church, Rom. 16:1, et al,; a Christian congregation, 1 Cor. 14:4, et al."

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, Hendrickson Publishing, Peabody, Mass., 01962, Copyright 1990, ekklhsia, p.127

The definition from greekbible.com, says the exact same thing:



http://www.greekbible.com/index.php

It properly means a group or congregation of born-again Christians who just happen to meet in a church. Should it matter whether or not you belong to a Presbyterian church, or a Liberal church? No, but here, it does.

We are properly congregational, not Christian Communities, or even faith groups. We are like-minded individuals who seek out congregations with the same religious convictions as ourselves to worship our Lord and Saviour.

The name "faith groups" never made sense to me because we all stepped out on faith in Jesus Christ didn't we? "Faith groups made it sound like some relied on faith while others relied on denominations.

And the fact still remains, all Christian "denominations" whatever they are, owe their very existance on the movement started by one man, one rebel named Jesus Christ. Who founded Christianity in AD 33!

Unite us back under the "Congregational" umbrella!

God Bless

Till all are one.
Thank you for the clarification, brother.
I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying.
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  #26  
Old 8th July 2008, 05:19 PM
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I personally don't care which name is used, but would like to understand why people feel strongly about how these forums are named. I have had strong feelings about forum names before, and if someone else has a seriously good reason, I might decide to vote.
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  #27  
Old 8th July 2008, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DeaconDean View Post
Upper staff, those with the Green "A's" and those with the Blue "A's" are the ones whom I have questioned about this change.

Yes I have taken this "upstairs" because quite frankly, I was upset over the split.

Now here is the reason I was given.

Those "groups" who fit the denominational description were those whose "doctrines" could easily be sorted out under creeds and confessions. Hence "denominations."

And those "groups" who could trace there beginnings to religious "movements" were placed in the "faith" groups. For example, the Spirit-Filled/Pentecostal group can trace their beginnings back to a "holiness movement" from around the early part of the 19th century.

Another example would be as you've said, if your a Baptist, chances are your a Baptist. Likewise, if your a Catholic, your a Catholic. But where "faith" groups also differed from Denominations is that even though I am a Baptist, I can also be considered a Fundamentalist, and I also fall under the "Reformed" classification. Hence, I can also be considered a Semper Reformanda, even though most SR members are Presbyterian.
How long ago did you take this "upstairs?" Can we have an update on whether the answer you were given then continues to reflect the views of CF's management?

Two years ago, we had some Admins who favored labeling everybody according to these Admins' religious categories, rather than letting Congregations self-define. I can pinpoint when it was because that's when the Anabaptists, Quakers, Brethren, C&MA, etc. showed up one Monday to find a shiny new ghetto had been created for some of us, and some of us had been made homeless in the Congregation fora. CF was really big on labeling that year. We had the great rainbow controversy and the great marriage rings controversy, and people were getting stripped of their faith icons left and right.

Have we put all this behind us by now?

If so, how about asking the members for more open-ended suggestions for reorganizing the Congregation forums, rather than the sudden and unexplained appearance of a naming poll with 2 choices?

How about a little history on why this name change idea came up in he first place? I read those little pamphlets and study the propositions on my ballot before voting on them. Could we have a little background on this measure before being asked to cast our votes?
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  #28  
Old 8th July 2008, 05:36 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're being asked for our input, rather than not asked, but just "thanked" for input when notified of a decision we didn't even know was being discussed.

Could we please have a "voters pamphlet" along with the poll?
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Old 8th July 2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Liz View Post
How long ago did you take this "upstairs?" Can we have an update on whether the answer you were given then continues to reflect the views of CF's management?

Two years ago, we had some Admins who favored labeling everybody according to these Admins' religious categories, rather than letting Congregations self-define. I can pinpoint when it was because that's when the Anabaptists, Quakers, Brethren, C&MA, etc. showed up one Monday to find a shiny new ghetto had been created for some of us, and some of us had been made homeless in the Congregation fora. CF was really big on labeling that year. We had the great rainbow controversy and the great marriage rings controversy, and people were getting stripped of their faith icons left and right.

Have we put all this behind us by now?

If so, how about asking the members for more open-ended suggestions for reorganizing the Congregation forums, rather than the sudden and unexplained appearance of a naming poll with 2 choices?

How about a little history on why this name change idea came up in he first place? I read those little pamphlets and study the propositions on my ballot before voting on them. Could we have a little background on this measure before being asked to cast our votes?
Without revealing too much, I took my concerns "up-stairs" almost immediately after the recent reshuffle. I laid out not only my concerns, but the concerns of others that had been related to me personally.

I even tried my best to show what I spoke here, perhaps not in the best of words, but the point I made was exactly the same.

I was given the explanations that I have given to you. So what was said to me, I related to you.

But I do know from Moderating in another forum, one group was adimate about being taken out of the Denominational area.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no plans to re-unite us under a "congregational" area. There is in place, the set belief that Christians should be divided into two groups, those who follow along denominational guidleines, and those who as said previously, trace their roots to religious movements.

I can only imagine the ruckus being kicked up when the Catholics heard that they are now in the eyes of the forums, considered a "denomination." Even though I may disagree with them, I can understand their fustration.

So, as far as I know, from the ruckus I stired up when I asked this question, and the beating I personally took, I'm afraid that the current position I stated will be CF's position at least for the time being.

And that is about all I know.

God Bless

Till all are one.
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-Charles Dickens, A Chrismas Carol, 1843
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  #30  
Old 8th July 2008, 06:25 PM
ProfessorMom
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Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're being asked for our input, rather than not asked, but just "thanked" for input when notified of a decision we didn't even know was being discussed.
Incorrect. There was a thread, 10 pages in length, asking for member opinions.
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