| Hamartiology The forum to discuss the doctrine of sin, the origin of sin and how sin entered into the world. |
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11th July 2008, 07:56 AM
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Reps: 23,332,450 (power: 0) | | | Bling, are you a Mormon, by any chance? A lot of the things you're saying are very similar to Mormon teaching. |
11th July 2008, 02:40 PM
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Reps: 124,582,378,884,127,696 (power: 124,582,378,884,134) | | Originally Posted by FredSmith  Bling, are you a Mormon, by any chance? A lot of the things you're saying are very similar to Mormon teaching.
NO! |
11th July 2008, 07:42 PM
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Reps: 25,098,236,542,439,984 (power: 25,098,236,542,447) | | | In short, yes, sin has purpose. If it did not, it would not be here for all things of God's creation have a purpose.
hismessenger |
17th July 2008, 06:11 PM
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Reps: 124,582,378,884,127,696 (power: 124,582,378,884,134) | | Originally Posted by Hismessenger In short, yes, sin has purpose. If it did not, it would not be here for all things of God's creation have a purpose.
hismessenger
I do not know if we can say definitively that God created sin in the way God would define "created". God allowed satan and others to sin of their own free will. |
18th July 2008, 01:03 AM
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Reps: 320,704,812,997,701 (power: 320,704,813,001) | | Originally Posted by Hismessenger In short, yes, sin has purpose. If it did not, it would not be here for all things of God's creation have a purpose.
hismessenger
If God is love, and not simply loving, how can he create sin? The "problem" of evil is an artificial one, insofar that it assumes that God is imperfect, incomplete, or evil. Any of those traits is in contradiction to the nature of a perfect God. So we're left with the question: how can sin have purpose if it is not of God? Sin does not have to have purpose inherent to it in order to exist. Sin may exist for its own sake, or for nothing, which would explain why it leads to death. If we're willing to accept that sin has no purpose, then God, who by His grace gives man purpose and destroys sin, becomes that much more profound. |
18th July 2008, 03:41 PM
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Reps: 124,582,378,884,127,696 (power: 124,582,378,884,134) | | Originally Posted by AmericanCatholic If God is love, and not simply loving, how can he create sin? The "problem" of evil is an artificial one, insofar that it assumes that God is imperfect, incomplete, or evil. Any of those traits is in contradiction to the nature of a perfect God. So we're left with the question: how can sin have purpose if it is not of God? Sin does not have to have purpose inherent to it in order to exist. Sin may exist for its own sake, or for nothing, which would explain why it leads to death. If we're willing to accept that sin has no purpose, then God, who by His grace gives man purpose and destroys sin, becomes that much more profound. God allows things to happen for our good, but is not involved directly in causing them to happen. These things have purpose in that they help us to fulfill our objective. God does not create sin, but allows sin to happen. God allowing satan to do bad stuff does not “make” God evil, incomplete or imperfect. Everything seems to be driven by the objective: Where man’s objective is: To Love God with all his heart, soul, mind, and energy. And Love others. God’s objective seems to be: To do all He can to help those that are willing fulfill their objective. The problem with humans is with the acceptance of God’s Love, since He is doing all He can to give it to us short of forcing it on us. The easiest way it appears for humans to accept God’s Love is in the form of forgiveness of sin (mercy, grace, Love). To receive forgiveness you must first sin.  |
18th July 2008, 04:25 PM
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-A |
18th July 2008, 05:01 PM
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Reps: 320,704,812,997,701 (power: 320,704,813,001) | | Originally Posted by bling God allows things to happen for our good, but is not involved directly in causing them to happen. These things have purpose in that they help us to fulfill our objective. God does not create sin, but allows sin to happen.
God allowing satan to do bad stuff does not “make” God evil, incomplete or imperfect.
Everything seems to be driven by the objective: Where man’s objective is: To Love God with all his heart, soul, mind, and energy. And Love others. God’s objective seems to be: To do all He can to help those that are willing fulfill their objective. The problem with humans is with the acceptance of God’s Love, since He is doing all He can to give it to us short of forcing it on us. The easiest way it appears for humans to accept God’s Love is in the form of forgiveness of sin (mercy, grace, Love). To receive forgiveness you must first sin.
I have no dispute with that. However, I will clarify my position by stating that in doing what you described, we are imposing (and arguably rightly so) our own purposes onto sin; it does not suggest that sin has a purpose inherent to itself. Nor does God's use of sin, in whatever manner, for his own purposes suggest that sin itself has purpose. |
22nd July 2008, 12:30 PM
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Reps: 124,582,378,884,127,696 (power: 124,582,378,884,134) | | Originally Posted by armothe Sin exists so that love may abound even more.
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Is there more to it then that like: required for humans to accept God's Love?? |
22nd July 2008, 12:37 PM
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Reps: 124,582,378,884,127,696 (power: 124,582,378,884,134) | | Originally Posted by AmericanCatholic I have no dispute with that. However, I will clarify my position by stating that in doing what you described, we are imposing (and arguably rightly so) our own purposes onto sin; it does not suggest that sin has a purpose inherent to itself. Nor does God's use of sin, in whatever manner, for his own purposes suggest that sin itself has purpose. Every human (other then Christ who came to earth with Godly type Love) that has ever obtained Godly type Love initially accepted that Love through accepting God’s forgiveness/mercy/grace/Love. We know of know other way and I do not see any other way, so sin is required to initially accept forgiveness (Love) from God. | | |
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