David and Jonathan show the love that two men can have for each other. It shows Jonathan realizing that God had annointed David as the "next" King of Israel and acting accordingly. A man loving another man is quite common in the history of men. Many men will abandon a wife a children, and literally, will die for their male friends.
Gay theology on David and Jonathan is easily countered when sound reasoning is presented against it.
Presenting that the Roman commander was a pedophile or pederast (at best) as a slave owner, asserts and inserts that the rape of another as a beautiful thing to be engaged in is the gay theological position. The entire New Testament rejects that inappropriate position.
What we have "in context" is a Roman (and NOT a Jew/Israelite) that cares deeply for a young person under his authority, that is suffering to the point of death. He should be seen as a Christian before the word Christian was used to describe the followers of Christ Jesus. (They were called Christians first in Antioch.)
Asserting that the Roman in the passage is a man who has sex with boy slaves and that "his faith" is great indeed, is a stretch of the imagination, not to mention that this position supports pederasty/pedophilia and man-boy sex. That position, opposes the reality of the entire New Testament witness on what is proper sexuality "for a Christian."
///
What about a mother in law and her daughter in law being lesbian lovers (Ruth and Naomi)?
Care to examine the scriptures on them? Or, how about just the modern moral statement in presenting the two ladies as homosexual partners? Naomi went to great depths to get Ruth to marry this sweet guy named Boaz. As can be seen on these very boards, lesbians do not go to any lengths to get their young lovers to marry any man. In fact they claim that that is hate crime to teach that.
I wonder how many people in the Christian world know how GLBT's teach and preach the Bible?
The whole idea of "loving" each other takes on a whole new meaning in Gay theology. Gay theology is close to blasphemy seeing that all of the people concerned in their theology (except the Roman and his sex slave) are in the family tree of Christ Jesus.
If nothing else gay theology certainly crosses the lines of decency and resembles the words spoken to Eve by the Serpent:
"Did God really say?"
CLOSE TO BLASPHEMY? IT IS TOTAL BLATANT BLASPHEMY! NOT AT ALL WORTHY OF THE TERM MEANING "LITTLE CHRISTS."
Let's see, if I "dare" to stand against the gay train plowing through society, I am either a closeted gay gay, or a troll, or someone wanting to hurt gays physically.
Maybe you are those things, maybe you aren't. I don't know you, so I can't say. <staff edit>
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Man, it seems more and more as you deal with GLBT's that obviously Sodom and Gomorrah was no myth or metaphor.
You've offered no proof that S&G had anything to do with homosexuality, myth or not.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
The inhospitality of gay sex adherants is haughtiness defined perfectly. There are more gay, lesbian, pagans and atheists here than there are Christians.
Yes, obviously. This is the section of the forums that is open to all - not just christians. You can leave if you like, and it certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings if you did.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Parasatical plain and simple and for a different purpose than hearing the Gospel preached in truth.
I don't particularly care for "gospel preaching" and I'm sure they have a subforum for that. This is E&M, where we discuss just that.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
There is no support for pushing the gay agenda on Christians but that is what is done incessanty by the GLBT culture and its proponents.
Yes, because this group of people are the most vocal. They are the ones pushing for legislation that would, in effect, make us lesser human beings. We are striving for equality, so you can bet we're not going away until we get what we want.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
This thread and all the others pushing the gay life proves this.
There is no such thing as a "gay life". This has been illustrated to you repeatedly, yet you keep repeating your lies. I find it funny that, the ones who profess their christianity the loudest are more likely the ones who exhibit the least amount of christian behavior.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
People in your camp are demanding that Christians shutup or stay in their Churches . . .
Because laws based on religion have no place in a secular society. Do what you will in your churches, just leave it out of the government.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
When Christians stand against sexual behaviors being some kind of new minority classifications, we are labeled as bad people.
Stand against it all you want, but do not try to impose your morals and/or beliefs on others. That's what makes you bad people.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Why can't same-gender sex be opposed?
No one is forcing you to have same-gender sex. Oppose it in your own life, not in the lives of others.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
The very anatomy of the human body opposes the gay agenda.
That's odd. I've been having sex with my partner for the last six years (almost, October this year!) and our anatomy hasn't opposed us yet. I'm not sure what you mean here.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Paul's assertion and a modern MD.
I don't care about Paul, and any MD that claims what you have claimed is a quack.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Care to actually debate the premise of this thread?
I've issued a challenge to you in another thread which you have (suprise!) completely ignored. Your whole basis for condemnation of gay people hinges on the alleged condemnation by "god", as recorded in the bible. I do not hold the bible in any higher esteem than I do any of the other myriad religious texts found all over the world. I do not believe your god exists, therefore I do not believe he condemns my life. If you are correct, and god does indeed oppose homosexuality, then show me your god. Show me that he exists, and then maybe I can take the bible a little more seriously.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Baggering me as Lot was isn't debate.
I called you out on your behaviour in these threads. Are you denying what I said? Because, let me tell you, from where I sit you have absolutely no right to take offense at an ad hominemwhen you have done nothing but bad-mouth gays up one side these boards and down the other.
Last edited by Sojourner1; 27th June 2008 at 09:15 PM.
Reason: Edited by staff pending review of post
I've issued a challenge to you in another thread which you have (suprise!) completely ignored. Your whole basis for condemnation of gay people hinges on the alleged condemnation by "god", as recorded in the bible. I do not hold the bible in any higher esteem than I do any of the other myriad religious texts found all over the world. I do not believe your god exists, therefore I do not believe he condemns my life. If you are correct, and god does indeed oppose homosexuality, then show me your god. Show me that he exists, and then maybe I can take the bible a little more serious
16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek. 17 For the righteousness of God in it is revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written, 'And the righteous one by faith shall live,' 18 for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness. 19 Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, 20 for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable; 21 because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened, 22 professing to be wise, they were made fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of fowls, and of quadrupeds, and of reptiles. 24 Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves; 25who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen. 26 Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature; 27 and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving. 28 And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly; 29 having been filled with all unrighteousness, whoredom, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil dispositions; whisperers, 30 evil-speakers, God-haters, insulting, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 unintelligent, faithless, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful; 32 who the righteous judgment of God having known -- that those practising such things are worthy of death -- not only do them, but also have delight with those practising them.
[quote=selfinflikted;47616942]Maybe you are those things, maybe you aren't. I don't know you, so I can't say. What I can say, based on your posts dealing with the subject is that you are a bigot.
I have reported you use of the word bigot to define my opposition to homosexuality.
You've offered no proof that S&G had anything to do with homosexuality, myth or not.
Men raping men is a homosexual act. Do the math. But I also agree that it was haughtiness and inhospitality and many other sins that had the cry of horro about Sodom and Gomorrah reaching God. Notice that God didn't go into Sodom, but destroyed it from outside of it. Myth or not.
Yes, obviously. This is the section of the forums that is open to all - not just christians. You can leave if you like, and it certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings if you did.
I am not afriad of non or anti-Christians. Hence my nickname. Sometimes thay are hilarious.
[quoteI don't particularly care for "gospel preaching" and I'm sure they have a subforum for that. This is E&M, where we discuss just that.
The perfect place to oppose the ethics and morality of supporting and promoting homosexuality as something a Christian should do. I have the entire New Testament as backup for that.
Yes, because this group of people are the most vocal. They are the ones pushing for legislation that would, in effect, make us lesser human beings. We are striving for equality, so you can bet we're not going away until we get what we want.
And we Christians are not going away in our opposition to gay sex being promoted.
There is no such thing as a "gay life". This has been illustrated to you repeatedly, yet you keep repeating your lies. I find it funny that, the ones who profess their christianity the loudest are more likely the ones who exhibit the least amount of christian behavior.[/quite]
Same-gender marriage is exclusively "gay life." And so on . . .
[quoteBecause laws based on religion have no place in a secular society. Do what you will in your churches, just leave it out of the government.
That flies in the face of the reality of the founding of the United States. The founders used religion very well in many places in founding this nation.
16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek. 17 For the righteousness of God in it is revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written, 'And the righteous one by faith shall live,' 18 for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness. 19 Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, 20 for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable; 21 because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened, 22 professing to be wise, they were made fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of fowls, and of quadrupeds, and of reptiles. 24 Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves; 25who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen. 26 Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature; 27 and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving. 28 And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly; 29 having been filled with all unrighteousness, whoredom, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil dispositions; whisperers, 30 evil-speakers, God-haters, insulting, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 unintelligent, faithless, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful; 32 who the righteous judgment of God having known -- that those practising such things are worthy of death -- not only do them, but also have delight with those practising them.
No, it is not. Rape, regardless of the sex/gender of the person being raped, is about control and power - NOT sex. It is NEVER about sex. Men who rape other men in prison are not doing it because they are gay, it is purely for control and humiliation. Men who victimize and rape women aren't doing it because they think she's hot, they are doing it to control her. Once again, rape is NOT a homosexual, or even a heterosexual act, it's not even a sexual act at all, period. You need to understand that.
I have reported you use of the word bigot to define my opposition to homosexuality.
That's fine. It won't be the first report against me, and it probably won't be the last. Note though, that despite the many, many derogatory names you've called gays (me), I have not hit the report button once. I couldn't care less if you "oppose" homosexuality, but the nature and tone of all your posts could only be described as pure bigotry. Sorry if that's offensive, but sometimes the truth hurts.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Men raping men is a homosexual act. Do the math.
No, rape is rape. It has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. I still believe that, after all the discussion that has taken place over the past couple of weeks, you have no idea what "sexual orientation" means. I think you read the words that myself and others post, but you don't take the time to try to understand or comprehend what they actually say.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
I am not afriad of non or anti-Christians. Hence my nickname. Sometimes thay are hilarious.
And sometimes, "christians" can be even more hilarious.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
The perfect place to oppose the ethics and morality of supporting and promoting homosexuality as something a Christian should do. I have the entire New Testament as backup for that.
What you have, is an obvious aversion to people that are different from yourself. That, and a book written by an ancient, superstitious people that sometimes contains bits of wisdom, but at the same time contains a lot of what we would consider today to be quite immoral.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
And we Christians are not going away in our opposition to gay sex being promoted.
Actually, you are going away. As the younger generations get older, more and more bigots will be wiped off the face of the earth. It is only a matter of time before the majority of them are gone, and we gain full equal rights and hopefully full on social acceptance. It's happening already, and your "team" is losing the battle.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Same-gender marriage is exclusively "gay life." And so on . . .
No. This is the same thing as saying there is a "gay lifestyle" and a "gay agenda". This is just patently false. The only thing that gays have in common is their sexual orientation. There is no "gay life", "gay lifestyle", or "gay agenda". This has been pointed out ad nauseum.
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
That flies in the face of the reality of the founding of the United States.
How so?
__________________ You cannot sedate all the things you hate.
0 x 0 = the seen and unseen universe may make sense to an athiest, but this kind of logic is queer to those of us that reason things out.
One of the many differences between myself and some christians is that I am perfectly fine answering the question "Where did the universe come from?" with the answer "I don't know." I'm content with that, and have absolutely no need to insert a "god" into the equation anywhere.
And you can dispense with the "0 x 0 = whatever" nonsense. I don't know where you got that, but it is most certainly not what I believe.
__________________ You cannot sedate all the things you hate.
You know, PF, if you're ever going make good on your promise to shake the dust off your sandals and go elsewhere, there are some other parts of this website where you can preach to the choir to your heart's content.
If you plan on staying around here, however, I suggest you provide some evidence corroborating that your Biblical interpretation is the sole correct one. Otherwise, you have little hope of convincing anyone. And if you are not here to convince anyone, why are you in a debate forum?
__________________ Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
-- Eric Hoffer
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