SoulForce is as much a political call for equality as it is for "Gay Theology."
What is a far worse stretch is, "I'm a Christian, and I follow Jesus, who has commanded me to love my neighbor as myself, but gay people aren't my neighbor! I don't think they should have the say rights as I do! I think they should be unlawfully and unfairly fired simply for being gay.
There are just people that engage in same-gender sex acts. Spare me the propaganda of neologism. The Gospel (Evangel) sees all people as the same. It also deals with behaviors that keeps them away from a roll of authority over Christians.
Not being hired for a Church position, or a job in a Christian Book Store or a Christian School, is not the same as being fired from a job. Other than asking gays to be decent about forcing their lifestyle choices onto Christians, please show me a company that would dare to fire a GLBT person? Most companies have a phobia about being sued and harrassed.
I am protected by hate crimes under Religion, but gay people shouldn't be!
Gay is a sex act. Why should sexual behavior be allowed to qualify as a minority?
I can marry someone of the opposite sex, which is good in times of life or death decisions, but I don't want the same for gay people! I hate them, because that is the most loving thing I can do."
Preaching the Gospel and preaching the repnetance of sins are not hate crimes to anyone but Gays and Muslims.
Such people mock God. If he truly exists,
Your mocking is OK though.
0 x 0 equaling the seen and unseen universe doesn't exist. God is common sense and complicated math. We Christians are taught to "study," and "test all things." No fear of where it leads. No phobia I should say.
they will have to answer for it. "I suffered injustice, and you not only encouraged it, but supported it and fought for it. You did not love me as yourself."
I would hope those that loved me would talk to me about leaving a homosexual lifestyle and its resulting innapropraiet behaviors. If I didn't they would not be blamed for asking me to be quiet in Church.
And what is it that happens to the goats, then?
The same thing that happens to the weeds. I'll post a new thread on how gays can fit into a Church body. I have many scriptures to show that. But not as anything to do with influence or leadership. I want the bathrooms in the Church to be used only for what they were designed for.
The Pharisees loved to parade themselves up and down the city streets. All dressed up in their finest display. They thought themselves of a higher order than others. Read some gay propaganda, they are portrayed as the poets, artists and truly refined class. Interestingly the bathroom and erotic exotic ball room behaviors are left out.
Christians humble themselves before the Lord in places you cannot see. Humbling yourself is not to be done before people. The way that GLBT's are portrayed here and elsewhere, you would think they were all John the Baptist types. Hardly. They are not harbingers of a better world.
I would have used the scripture you quoted, but I didn't think it was appropriate on these boards. It's about confessing sins and being grieved by them.
Gays are not born sinners remember the sales pitch?
Humbling is not to be done before man? Interesting, Jesus, the Son of God, mind you, washed the feet of men. You were saying?
He was humbled at birth by being born in a manger to poor parents. He could have been born a king. He could have walked around and just talked about how sinful people were. But he didn't. He ate with the prostitutes and tax collectors, which offended the Pharisees, the supposed leaders and teachers of the Scriptures.
I think that you have missed the point of the passage.
There are just people that engage in same-gender sex acts. Spare me the propaganda of neologism. The Gospel (Evangel) sees all people as the same. It also deals with behaviors that keeps them away from a roll of authority over Christians.
Not being hired for a Church position, or a job in a Christian Book Store or a Christian School, is not the same as being fired from a job. Other than asking gays to be decent about forcing their lifestyle choices onto Christians, please show me a company that would dare to fire a GLBT person? Most companies have a phobia about being sued and harrassed.
Gay is a sex act. Why should sexual behavior be allowed to qualify as a minority?
Preaching the Gospel and preaching the repnetance of sins are not hate crimes to anyone but Gays and Muslims.
Your mocking is OK though.
0 x 0 equaling the seen and unseen universe doesn't exist. God is common sense and complicated math. We Christians are taught to "study," and "test all things." No fear of where it leads. No phobia I should say.
I would hope those that loved me would talk to me about leaving a homosexual lifestyle and its resulting innapropraiet behaviors. If I didn't they would not be blamed for asking me to be quiet in Church.
The same thing that happens to the weeds. I'll post a new thread on how gays can fit into a Church body. I have many scriptures to show that. But not as anything to do with influence or leadership. I want the bathrooms in the Church to be used only for what they were designed for.
Which is worse: To claim to be Christianity, and then be the antithesis of the message, or to claim to be Buddhist, and not adhere to the Bible because it isn't what you believe?
I don't understand Modern Christianity.
A Christian once told me, after quoting something that showed that he was disregarding Scripture, "I'm no longer held to the law. You are."
In other words, because he was saved through Christ, he thought he had carte blanche to behave in any manner he chose, and could disregard the bible, and I, who was not Christian, was held to the bible.
Big fat Confederate-sympathizing queer Zen atheist
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For heaven's sake we're just PEOPLE. You are SO determined to generalize about queer people and hate these faceless, uniform demons you've built us up in your mind to be. "GLBT's do this; Christians do this; etc." Stop presuming to know what everyone in any such group does. The difference, the ONLY difference between a queer man and you, is the genitalia of the people to whom he is attracted. The ONLY difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual, by definition, is how their genitals compare to those of the people they love. Within those "categories" (if we really must divide ourselves thus) there's the same range of expression. Some homosexuals are promiscuous -- so are some heterosexuals. Some are sexually conservative or avoid sex entirely. Some of both like to flaunt their sexuality; some are more reserved. Some of both like country music; some of both like hip hop. Some of both are Christian and do their best to live their lives in accordance with what they believe is God's will for them (amazingly, not everyone's religious beliefs are identical to yours -- obviously that makes them wrong, since God is speaking to you and you alone can discern His mind ) and some are atheists and don't give a crap what's in the Bible, and some of those still try to act like decent people and be good to each other (still talking about straights AND queers, remember.) Despite the fact that you've latched onto them like one mysteriously obsessed, gay pride parades don't happen that often (what, like once a year, in big cities?) and when they do it's a pretty small percentage of the queer population that participates. Some queer people are activists and will get in your face defending their own equality (as will some straight people, about gay rights or any other issue) and some are quiet and keep to themselves (funny how you assume these don't even exist -- how would you know?) You can't blanketly say "GLBT's do this" if "this" is anything other than "feel attraction to people of their own sex and/or gender."
In short: stop making gross generalizations and using them as reasons to put barriers of hate between us all; this isn't "gay versus straight" or even "gay versus Christian" (like there isn't overlap) and few people on any side are trying to make it so (oddly, most of those who do are Christians -- yet gays are still the ones out trying to destroy everyone else's life, somehow.) Unless what you have a problem with relates SPECIFICALLY to love and attraction between a particular combination of crotch, as that's the ONLY thing that divides homosexuals from heterosexuals, you have nothing to hate on the queer side any more than on the straight one. And if you're really obsessed with the genitals of other people and their lovers... buddy, get a hobby. I'M not even as interested in my girlfriend's junk as you apparently are.
Last edited by Big Empty Circle; 25th June 2008 at 08:46 PM.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner. Only the GLBT community sees that as a hate crime. All of us other sinners see this as grace and love.
Somewhat dishonestly. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" seems to me to be an effort to excuse one's own prejudice.
Sexuality is not something you "do" it's something you are. Think about it, are you a heterosexual or is heterosexuality just something that you do? Which is the more honest phrase? This applies to sexuality in general.
You cannot hate the sin in this case without hating what people are. Something that is inseparable from them.
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Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.
But it is also true that, though sound argument and a reasonable appreciation of the available evidence may happen sometimes to lead to false conclusions, no man who is indifferent to argument and evidence can claim to be concerned for truth...It is also true that to tolerate contradiction is similarly to be indifferent to truth. For the person who, whether directly or by implication, knowingly both asserts and denies one and the same proposition, shows by that behaviour that he does not care whether he asserts what is false, and not true, or whether he denies what is true, and not false.
- Antony Flew
Pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia, and now Satan himself? Why do you feel the need to compare homosexual people with horrible crimes, and, now, the Devil? Why, in your opinion, are homosexuals so EVIL?
It is a common tactic among bigots and hate mongers. Racists have used the same method for centuries to justify their hatreds
Evil originates among those who promote sin as good.
You promote the sin of bigotry as good
I have lost track of the number of times you have born false witness against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters (implying that baring false witness is good)
I've never understood why homosexuals would want to be part of a religion which gets it so laughably wrong on sexual ethics to be honest.
Because there is Christianity in existence that isn't Fundamentalist Christianity. I know it's hard to believe (heck, I consider myself sort of a Christian and even I have trouble believing it)!
I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think that Jesus had some pretty good points, and I think that these can be just as appropriate for gay or bisexual people as they can be for straight people. And, frankly, I hate to think that the only people who talk about both homosexuality and Christianity are those who use the latter as an excuse to attack the former.
Originally Posted by uberd00b
The pro-gay interpretations do seem a little bit of stretch to me.
Well, I don't know what exactly you mean by "pro-gay" interpretations.
When talking about Ruth or about King David, I certainly agree it's a stretch to think that such are an indication that the Bible promotes homosexual relationships through these.
On the other hand, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say that the verses, particularly those in the New Testament, used to condemn homosexual are not actually referring to what some anti-gay people claim they are. But, really, I just love to debate, and the other interpretations of these verses give me a way to debate people who use them to condemn homosexuality.
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Humbling is not to be done before man? Interesting, Jesus, the Son of God, mind you, washed the feet of men. You were saying?
He was humbled at birth by being born in a manger to poor parents. He could have been born a king. He could have walked around and just talked about how sinful people were. But he didn't. He ate with the prostitutes and tax collectors, which offended the Pharisees, the supposed leaders and teachers of the Scriptures.
I think that you have missed the point of the passage.
You're right on those points. Now please be as consistent on marriage being a man and a woman in humble Christian culture. And I am not going to be humble about the gay agenda and my children and Christian brothers and sisters. For that I am going to contend for the faith, "Delivered only once to the Saints."
Speaking of tax collectors . . . and sinners refusing to repent, Jesus said to try to go to a brother and show him his error. If he doesn't listen, bring two or three other people. If he still doesn't listen (and repent) then bring him before the Church. If he still keeps to his position, "Treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
The Apostles taught marriage was a man and a woman too. They also taught that Christians should not engage in sexually inappropriate behavior like worldy people do. They wrote about this several times.
For heaven's sake we're just PEOPLE. You are SO determined to generalize about queer people and hate these faceless, uniform demons you've built us up in your mind to be. "GLBT's do this; Christians do this; etc." Stop presuming to know what everyone in any such group does. The difference, the ONLY difference between a queer man and you, is the genitalia of the people to whom he is attracted. The ONLY difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual, by definition, is how their genitals compare to those of the people they love.
"People?" How about person? This is where the hate accusations get trashed and the reality of promiscuous gay life gets proven as a defining factor. There is no need to assume anything when a person proclaims that they are Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual. Their sex life defines them. In Christian cultute we don't celebrate people's choice to sin. We try to help them out of it.
Within those "categories" (if we really must divide ourselves thus) there's the same range of expression.
You GLBT's have used neologism and self-applied labels to categorize yourselves. We Christians do not see anyone as anything but a person.
Some homosexuals are promiscuous -- so are some heterosexuals.
But only GLBT's accuse and charge Christians with hate crime and bigotry and phobia labels. I see no adulterers screaming out against the Church. Adultery is one of the sins that ALSO must be repented of. I have never seen an adultery pride parade.
Some are sexually conservative or avoid sex entirely. Some of both like to flaunt their sexuality; some are more reserved. Some of both like country music; some of both like hip hop. Some of both are Christian and do their best to live their lives in accordance with what they believe is God's will for them (amazingly, not everyone's religious beliefs are identical to yours -- obviously that makes them wrong, since God is speaking to you and you alone can discern His mind )
I just read the New Testament without the need to alter it or ignore it because the writers of it show me how I am a sinner. GLBT's do. That is the point of this thread.
and some are atheists and don't give a crap what's in the Bible, and some of those still try to act like decent people and be good to each other (still talking about straights AND queers, remember.)
I am never allowed to not remember. The gay issues will not go away.
Despite the fact that you've latched onto them like one mysteriously obsessed, gay pride parades don't happen that often (what, like once a year, in big cities?) and when they do it's a pretty small percentage of the queer population that participates. Some queer people are activists and will get in your face defending their own equality (as will some straight people, about gay rights or any other issue) and some are quiet and keep to themselves (funny how you assume these don't even exist -- how would you know?)
Ever heard of the word "denomination?" It is a place where "toleraance and diversity" are shown to really exist. GLBT issues are like bobblehead dolls. I know the Gay commuity well.
You can't blanketly say "GLBT's do this" if "this" is anything other than "feel attraction to people of their own sex and/or gender."
Then why the need to have Gay Clubs in public schools? Why the need to have pink rainbows in the human resources offices in businesses? Why the need for anyone to have to hear about "gay" goals and aspirations. Repeat, I know the gay community well.
In short: stop making gross generalizations and using them as reasons to put barriers of hate between us all;
Tell that to your gay community activists. The ones supported by the vast majority of GLBT's. Hence the organizational use of GLBT.
this isn't "gay versus straight" or even "gay versus Christian" (like there isn't overlap)
I think this thread proves that there is definately a Gays versus the straights and Christians. Basically the Christians. That is why I posted what gays teach about the scriptures I listed. They are an afront to decency and truth. But, that doesn't seem to ever stop the gay agenda from forcing its way into the Chruch and public life. Soulfoece for example, literally intimidates Christians and charges them with a sickening accusation of "spiritual violence," (another neologism) and goes from Christian Churches, Colleges and Organizations demanding to show how Christians are in error about gay sex and gay life being incompatible with Christian truth.
I wish they would "dialog" with my Church. I wouldn't hold the meeting in my office. It would be a debate in front of the whole congregation. Seriously, these Soulforce people in typical gay theological fashion, are truly intolerant and fanatical. They present more like the men of sodom to Lot. They could just start their own religion or denomination, but they "choose" to force gay sex and gay lifestyle into and onto decent and peaceful Churches, Christain Universities and Christain Organizations. It is truly reprehensible. But that always seems to be OK behavior in the GLBT worldview.
this isn't "gay versus straight" or even "gay versus Christian" (like there isn't overlap) and few people on any side are trying to make it so (oddly, most of those who do are Christians -- yet gays are still the ones out trying to destroy everyone else's life, somehow.)
There is cause and effect to immorality taking hold of a nation. Our youth are NOT get a moral message from gay "rights." They are becoming more and more debauched by this "anything goes" proclamation being forced on them by Humanists and Gay rights activists.
Unless what you have a problem with relates SPECIFICALLY to love and attraction between a particular combination of crotch, as that's the ONLY thing that divides homosexuals from heterosexuals, you have nothing to hate on the queer side any more than on the straight one. And if you're really obsessed with the genitals of other people and their lovers... buddy, get a hobby. I'M not even as interested in my girlfriend's junk as you apparently are.
Gay tactics just are not going to shake me up. I'm not a closeted self-loathing gay guy, I'm not trolling, and I'm not seking membership in PFLAG or GLSEN. I just want to show that the Bible no where supports and condones and/or promotes gay sex to be engaged in by Christians and that it is NOT hate to reject same-gender sexuality in all of its cleverly devised propaganda and ad campaigns.
Why not try to debate the gay side of the theology they take? I have provided the scripture references.
) and some are atheists and don't give a crap what's in the Bible, and some of those still try to act like decent people and be good to each other (still talking about straights AND queers, remember.) Despite the fact that you've latched onto them like one mysteriously obsessed, gay pride parades don't happen that often (what, like once a year, in big cities?) and when they do it's a pretty small percentage of the queer population that participates. Some queer people are activists and will get in your face defending their own equality (as will some straight people, about gay rights or any other issue) and some are quiet and keep to themselves (funny how you assume these don't even exist -- how would you know?) You can't blanketly say "GLBT's do this" if "this" is anything other than "feel attraction to people of their own sex and/or gender." 
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