MJ staff and member meeting June 22-July 7

Bananna · #42 24th June 2008, 02:02 AM

I love UT,
so bite me.

I spent a lot of time getting to know the other Christians and their unorthodox view. They are loving and God fearing people who trust in Christ.

There is a lot of slander out there against them and we should have no part of it. If one does not want to get to know unorthodox views, they shouldn't speak against them lest they slander out of ignorance.

I'm truly hoping with prayer and hard work we can make the moderating more consistant on both sides. Members do need to know the new area was not created to allow the bait and report, nor use it to throw slander and run.

"do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

bananna

Lulav · #43 24th June 2008, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by Bananna

I love UT,
so bite me.

"do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

bananna

Now that's an oxymoron if I ever saw one!

So this is the kind of talk that is allowed here?

Nice.

debi b · #44 24th June 2008, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ivy

And Messianics per se haven't been hived off someplace; that's inaccurate. You can see for yourself that there are two main different areas, and that was to give non-Trins etc. the freedom to post that they wanted.

Well, I don't know that I would put it quite that way. It wasn't what I wanted - but given the situation, it was at least an alternative. Sadly....

debi b · #45 24th June 2008, 04:31 AM

I can't say I am mad or upset, but I am sad.

I used to really look forward to and enjoy my time on the forum. I have not been able to say that for a long time....

HaReb · #46 24th June 2008, 06:42 AM

I spent a lot of time getting to know the other Christians and their unorthodox view. They are loving and God fearing people who trust in Christ.

There is a lot of slander out there against them and we should have no part of it. If one does not want to get to know unorthodox views, they shouldn't speak against them lest they slander out of ignorance.

The red M, I think, indicates you are a Moderator - perhaps in your moderation it would be useful if you were to read the posts as they are written and not jump to what may be pre-conceived assumptions OR if a post is unclear, at least exercise the common courtesy of asking the poster what he/she meant. It is just this heavy handed and inaccurate moderation that causes many problems we have encountered between posters and staff - and this is meant to be the thread for clearing up the problems!!!!

I did not complain about Bible-believing Christians, I have no problems whatsoever with Bible-believing Christians, or with Jews. I do object, and I did complain about being lumped with cults, sects and those of other, similar, beliefs or philosophies.

Perhaps you should re-read my post lest you "slander someone out of ignorance", to use your own words.

Kris10leigh · #47 24th June 2008, 08:40 AM

The two problems with the UT sections that I have seen people have fault with are:
A) It's called "unorthodox" which we don't believe we are.
B) It's unfriendly

That's all anyone's really saying. I spend a great deal of time over there, and yes, the vast majority of posters there are wonderful! It's that one darn bad apple that spoils the whole bunch! (for me anyway) And there seems to be no boundaries. But the new forum does not pose that same problem.

Lulav, are you permitted to air out what's going on with you or do you feel comfortable doing so?

johnd · #48 24th June 2008, 01:13 PM

LOL

Having read this thread, it seems the skirmishes of MJ are just being brought / aired out here.

Its still a Trinitarian Christian board. MJ has been given a ball room at this Inn, if you will. But it's still the property of the Trinitarian Christians and we must act like responsible guests in their home. I am a Trinitarian Messianic, btw. So I don't fin most of their rules hard to live by.

Most (not all, but most) grievances here are based on the fact that the folks complaining are having a hard time remembering the above or adhering to it. I say to them... how about if a Trinitarian came to your house and started telling your family and guests they are all going to hell and are cultists?

It's just that simple that courtesy to CF and those who believe what or pretty much what CF states in their manifest is what is expected.

I like everyone here. Love nearly all of them (regardless what they believe) but there must needs be household standards and expectations.

simchat_torah · #49 24th June 2008, 03:33 PM

I'm going to be point blank frank with you. Take this with a very serious tone, I am going to be VERY frank with you. There are really three reasons I left the MJ section at CF:

1) Unjustified post deletions, thread closures, post edits were made against Jewish posters at an uncanny rate. Unjustified bans and RV's were handed out without provocation. I was banned, just recently, for 10 days and no legitimate rule was cited. Not one. Though no rule was cited, I was explicitly told I was banned for saying "Don't look behind the curtain". Funny thing is, many agreed with my sentiment. Were they too banned? ha, no. I didn't challenge it because the ban was issued after I formally left CF. How goofy is that? The hostile enviornment created by the admin/mod team of the MJ forum towards Jewish posters led to a massive exodus of the Jews at MJ... a truly tragic loss to the community. Time and time again, myself and other Jewish posters received warning after warning for absolutely no violation what so ever. Heck, just recently we all had our goodbye threads closed because "potential violations" might be inherrent to our posts. Talk about overmoderation.

2) Constant accusations of antimissionary activity played into the massive exodus of Jews from the MJ section and CF all together. As evidenced on other forums, the Jews here (who post elsewhere) were fed up with these accusations. There hasn't been a single antimissionary at CF in years. There hasn't been a single antimissionary at CF in years. In fact, the last one to have posted here just over 5 years ago or so, I took up in debate. Back then we relished antimissionaries (though far and few between) so taht we could "share Jesus with them". No Jew here has ever expressed a desire to change the views of Messianics or Christians. Not once. Yet the inflamatory insult has been tossed around endlessly, and even hampered our ability to post. THERE ARE DIFFERENCES between Jews and Messianics. This is simply a fact. Discussing those differences is not a promotion of evengelical means what so ever. Answering questions from a Jewish perspective does not mean we wish to influence the way you think, we merely want to establish a record of the Judaic viewpoint. Nothing more. This has been a major reason why the Jews made such an exodus from the forums, and why such tensions exist.

Until these three issues are dealt with, I highly doubt "explaining the rules" will mean bumpkiss to the Jewish community at the MJ section of CF.

simchat_torah · #50 24th June 2008, 03:48 PM

I see a lot of discussion, but not of real issues.

Exactly. It feels more like a means to sweep things under the rug. Discuss "rules" instead of the issues that caused the massive exodus of Jewish posters in the first place.

Our problems were, we (the rabbinic Jews here) were being bashed for defending ourselves from inflamatory posts. We were all given the impression several times that we were not allowed to post anything in the MJ forum except for the words "Jc is the man." Right now, in the new forum, we are being called a cult. This is hardly the first time such behavior has cropped up--in either place. We were also being bashed for answering questions directly asked of us.

Yup... this is the common sentiment we feel.

Beyond that... I do feel that the MJ forum has become an utterly unwelcome forum to rabbinical Jews, and people sense that.

Many of the mods kept wistfully telling the community "Things are going great! Whatcha talkin bout willis?" It felt like an insult to dismiss such a widespread sense in the community. This wasn't just one or two posters... this was quite a lot of them, as evidenced by the exodus. Many who stayed still felt the pains of the sentiment that has enveloped the MJ section.

Also when warnings are given out for every little breath that appears to be talking about "staff action" and the like.

Yes, this reiterates what I posted as our #1 concern. It felt like our posts were watched with eagle eyes. And if no violation existed, one was made up.

I think there is a vast difference between discussing the rules, and discussing an individual, particular situation/mod action or sanctioning. And if people can't address general moderator protocol or call general behaviors and ideas into question without having the threat of sanctioning/warning/RVs held over their heads, it does nothing but put the staff above any member-accountability (which is crucial to an ethical staff on any board), and it leaves members feeling they have no say over their forum and its handling or rules at all because discussing them publicly or having ANY issue with them at all and stating it is considered under the lump-accusation of "discussing moderator actions", etc.

Yes, it is as though the mods have taken upon themselves limitless unchecked power. This was never the intention of the CF moderator team. When I served as moderator we were servants to the community, not ruling overlords, causing fear in the community. People considered us friends and protectors. Now the mod team has created this immenent sense of horror. We have to wonder, every time we hit submit "will my post get a violation?"

Now that we have the UT area though for the non-trins, Rabbinic Jews and any MJ/MG/MBs who wish to come, I don't see this as an issue any longer so...

True, but it is still quite unfortunate this had to happen in the first place.