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25th June 2008, 02:13 PM
|  | A Jew, by the grace and love of God
    
 | | Join Date: 31st October 2003
Posts: 4,857
Blessings: 48,751 My Mood 
Reps: 2,399,264,450,613 (power: 2,399,264,461) | | Originally Posted by Tishri1  Just to clarify
Its kinda like the Levite family....
Just because your a Levite doesnt make you high priest, Only the house of Aaron has that role, it was understood with out making distinctions every time....
Just because your congregation is MJ(because thats what the world calls us), doesnt make all of us Jewish....
There is no congregation labeled Messianic Gentile.... They are all Messianic Jewish, but all understand that with in that name there are Jews and Gentiles...its not two different bodies with two different names, but it is two different races....so when you see me at least use MJ I am referring to the organization of the Body, not to the races of people with in that body ok... My congregation is a Messianic Jewish Congregation to which belong many Gentiles as well as Jews.... and we say MJ for short
Which is fine, but it also continues to be thought and asserted that there is a difference between Jews, and those who are messianic JEWISH (which many use to refer to gentiles, which by necessary extension means that those messianic gentiles are messianic JEWS). And that is a big problem, and not only in regard to breaking connections with the Jewish community here and in "real life" but the fact is that the major organizations within Messianicism do and should also have issue with that slip-sliding about. It leads people into serious error and whether you think it is "replacement" theology, it IS from this side of the fence, at least. ANY teaching that gentiles are JEWS or Jewish in any way, is erroneous and reprehensible.
If just anyone is a Jew, the entire NT would never make the distinction in any of its writings, between Jew and Gentile. Ever. All would be referred to as Jews if the Gentiles were considered converts. All would be referred to as Gentiles if the Jews lost their religion, covenant and calling, not to mention their ethnicity, when coming to belief in Jsus.
__________________ "For my Torah observant gentile friends: In Tractate Avoda Zara 3b, our sages tell us of the END OF DAYS. 2,000 years ago our rabbis explained that near the end of days many non-Jews will start keeping commandments like Jews. They will even call themselves part of the nation of Israel. BUT, when things get tough and the world turns on Israel-they cast off of the commandments and join the world against Israel. Hmm.." Jeremy Gimpel Psalm 103
17. But the Lord's kindness is from everlasting to everlasting, and His charity to sons of sons. 18 To those who keep His covenant and to those who remember His commandments to perform them.
Is He true to His Word? He's either faithful and true to those who fear and obey Him, or you know what you call Him.
Deut. 30 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “ For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”
 |
25th June 2008, 02:18 PM
| | A Jew, by the grace and love of God
| | Join Date: 31st October 2003
Posts: 4,857
Blessings: 48,751 My Mood
Reps: 2,399,264,450,613 (power: 2,399,264,461) | | Originally Posted by ChavaK I don't want to beat a dead horse, but anyone who
is not Jewish should be using MG or MB and not MJ...
I missed this and I will just "yeah that" this post too.
__________________ "For my Torah observant gentile friends: In Tractate Avoda Zara 3b, our sages tell us of the END OF DAYS. 2,000 years ago our rabbis explained that near the end of days many non-Jews will start keeping commandments like Jews. They will even call themselves part of the nation of Israel. BUT, when things get tough and the world turns on Israel-they cast off of the commandments and join the world against Israel. Hmm.." Jeremy Gimpel Psalm 103
17. But the Lord's kindness is from everlasting to everlasting, and His charity to sons of sons. 18 To those who keep His covenant and to those who remember His commandments to perform them.
Is He true to His Word? He's either faithful and true to those who fear and obey Him, or you know what you call Him.
Deut. 30 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “ For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”
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25th June 2008, 03:51 PM
|  | Member Services Team
38    
| | Join Date: 24th September 2005
Posts: 10,592
Blessings: 14,978
Reps: 6,109,183,864,707,132 (power: 6,109,183,864,722) | | Originally Posted by simchat_torah 3) Contra Mundum. Contra has endlessly turned from discussing the topic to flaming the individual. This has gone unchecked since he started as a mod. Jewish posters used to report it, but as they could not comment in the Report Threads and he could, he would provide arguments and ridicule the reports made on his name. Time and time again, these reports were futile and held no effect what so ever... so the reports virtually stopped, it was pointless to point out a flame he made against individuals. No mod took up real action to protect the community. The reports were pointless. It is wholly unfair that one could be reported and not be able to make a case for themselves because they were a regular poster. Yet CM, being a moderator, was able to post freely at will in any report thread that focued on a rule violation he made. This is only scratching the surface. His endless unfair and biased slant against not only Judaism, but Messianics is astounding. When he first became moderator, he spammed dozens of us with PM's detailing why Messianic Judaism was an affront to Christianity, and why it was horridly off base. Why was this individual chosen to moderate a subsection he obviously seethed with hatred against? His unfair dealings with Jews has waged a heavy toll on the Jewish spirit in these forums and burnt out a number of members. He, specifically, is a major reason that such a massive exodus occured from the MJ forums. Originally Posted by Tishri1 finally this last part here....CM's Admin needs to be present I will get her and let her comment as well as let him comment before I say anything...thats the right and fair thing to do....BRB....
This is probably not an appropriate venue to complain about the actions of one moderator. ST, you have accused Contra of flaming, but you are flaming him in return, which is against the sitewide rules.
Also, I think that your perception of Contra is incorrect. As his admin, having observed his comments in reports, I don't see any evidence that he seethes with hatred against the MJ forum or that he is unfair to Jews. Besides that, he is not the only one who makes decisions in reports, so I think it's unfair to single him out. I think that the moderators are doing their best to be fair, but if you disagree with their actions concerning you, you have the option to appeal.
In any case, let's stick to the issues in this discussion and stay away from flaming individuals.
__________________
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)
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25th June 2008, 04:32 PM
| | A Jew, by the grace and love of God
| | Join Date: 31st October 2003
Posts: 4,857
Blessings: 48,751 My Mood
Reps: 2,399,264,450,613 (power: 2,399,264,461) | | Originally Posted by Sophia7 This is probably not an appropriate venue to complain about the actions of one moderator. ST, you have accused Contra of flaming, but you are flaming him in return, which is against the sitewide rules.
Also, I think that your perception of Contra is incorrect. As his admin, having observed his comments in reports, I don't see any evidence that he seethes with hatred against the MJ forum or that he is unfair to Jews. Besides that, he is not the only one who makes decisions in reports, so I think it's unfair to single him out. I think that the moderators are doing their best to be fair, but if you disagree with their actions concerning you, you have the option to appeal.
In any case, let's stick to the issues in this discussion and stay away from flaming individuals.
THIS IS an issue in this discussion -- not only for S_T but for me and I believe for many others, not only Jews BTW.
If we have no ability to speak to this issue here, then I guess this \/ below, is not at all what's being attempted here: Originally Posted by Tishri1 Dear MJ membership we are having a staff meeting here.....It will last for a week so if you cannot come today, come by sometime this week if you want to .... We hope to clear the air, mend some fences, and give as much assurance to you and MJ as we can.
The MJ staff and CF Admins
Lets use this thread to clear up any misunderstandings we have had lately ok?  Originally Posted by Tishri1 Abba, we give this time to you and ask that you fill our hearts with understanding, unity and love .... May your will be done in us as we work things out here together 
Amen  Originally Posted by ShirChadash If I may say so, I don't think that one week is going to be at all sufficient to actually accomplish what is hoped-for in this forum. Many people won't even see this or come to check the thread out in that time, or at least before only a couple of days are left in that schedule, perhaps. For this to have any chance of working at building broken bridges, I think more than a week is certainly needed and prudent.
Also, is it any topic goes as relates to the MJ forum? Or will there be restrictions on anything "staff-related", rule-related, etc? Originally Posted by Tishri1 well this is where you can ask if certain things that you heard on the forum are really true, and things you think or feel are really true....We have Mods, Sups, Admins, and Advisors here to verify and offer encouragement.
Im not sure Vis thats a good question but it will have to be some one higher than me to answer it.....my training tells me no its still a Mod/Advisor issue but I could be wrong......
I am hoping one week is sufficient but if we need more time we can cross that bridge at that time how does that sound? Fair enough?  This is an invitation only meeting BUT if you all feel that someone was left out, that is not our intention, so please feel free to PM them with this link.....Do not post this link on the forum though thank you Well I believe so Shir, thats my guess anyway, and that is why we wanted you all here Originally Posted by Tishri1 We will try to answer any questions you bring up and dont worry about a little moaning thats fine here too just try(everyone) to help us all move toward the goal of unity and peace is all I ask
__________________ "For my Torah observant gentile friends: In Tractate Avoda Zara 3b, our sages tell us of the END OF DAYS. 2,000 years ago our rabbis explained that near the end of days many non-Jews will start keeping commandments like Jews. They will even call themselves part of the nation of Israel. BUT, when things get tough and the world turns on Israel-they cast off of the commandments and join the world against Israel. Hmm.." Jeremy Gimpel Psalm 103
17. But the Lord's kindness is from everlasting to everlasting, and His charity to sons of sons. 18 To those who keep His covenant and to those who remember His commandments to perform them.
Is He true to His Word? He's either faithful and true to those who fear and obey Him, or you know what you call Him.
Deut. 30 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “ For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”
Last edited by FreeinChrist; 28th June 2008 at 11:52 AM.
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25th June 2008, 05:03 PM
| | Member Services Team
38
| | Join Date: 24th September 2005
Posts: 10,592
Blessings: 14,978
Reps: 6,109,183,864,707,132 (power: 6,109,183,864,722) | | Originally Posted by ShirChadash If we have no ability to speak to this issue here, then I guess this \/ below, is not at all what's being attempted here:
Your complaints are being discussed by the admins, and we do take your concerns seriously. Keep in mind, though, that the outcome of an admin discussion regarding another member or a moderator is confidential, so we can't discuss it here, just as we can't tell people the outcome of a report on someone else.
This discussion is still under the jurisdiction of the sitewide rules, which prohibit flaming. That's why we need to stay away from discussing people and stick to the issues. If your issue is a specific person's posts or actions, that needs to be reported elsewhere.
__________________
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)
Last edited by FreeinChrist; 28th June 2008 at 11:58 AM.
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25th June 2008, 05:12 PM
| | A Jew, by the grace and love of God
| | Join Date: 31st October 2003
Posts: 4,857
Blessings: 48,751 My Mood
Reps: 2,399,264,450,613 (power: 2,399,264,461) | |
sigh.
__________________ "For my Torah observant gentile friends: In Tractate Avoda Zara 3b, our sages tell us of the END OF DAYS. 2,000 years ago our rabbis explained that near the end of days many non-Jews will start keeping commandments like Jews. They will even call themselves part of the nation of Israel. BUT, when things get tough and the world turns on Israel-they cast off of the commandments and join the world against Israel. Hmm.." Jeremy Gimpel Psalm 103
17. But the Lord's kindness is from everlasting to everlasting, and His charity to sons of sons. 18 To those who keep His covenant and to those who remember His commandments to perform them.
Is He true to His Word? He's either faithful and true to those who fear and obey Him, or you know what you call Him.
Deut. 30 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “ For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”
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25th June 2008, 05:42 PM
|  | Got Torah?
31  
| | Join Date: 23rd February 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 7,738
Blessings: 53,346
Reps: 17,445,708,262,428 (power: 17,445,708,277) | | your history of RVs made it up to the big guns and every admin saw a pattern of abusing the rules and agreed with the Mods in almost every instance.......
No, when I pressed further with admins and mods outside of the MJ forum, they were always at a loss. No one could ever justify the actions taken. But these aren't just actions taken against me personally... notice my post explicitly states actions taken against Jews as a whole. This drove many to quit the forums, and drove Talmidah and ChavaK to quit a few times 
Moreover, if you can possibly justify banning someone for 10 days over stating simply "don't look behind the curtain"... then your eye has become outrageously biased. I feel for you I really do but the fact is there is a proven history of RVs and those are just the reported posts
I know you want to use me as an example, despite my point that this was a general action taken against the overall Jewish community, but fine... let's talk about me. Rarely, if ever, were rules cited. I could have easily taken any one of the warnings to higher admins and had them removed for utterly ridiculous and questionable moderator action. But I never chose to make waves because we could all see the writing on the walls... we were on our way out. Your (yes YOU Tishri) harassment of me using made up violations without citing rules is beyond biased at this point. IN fact, you just removed a handful of threads for "potential violations", despite no violations existing in those threads! You think this is keeping a fair treatment of all members? Are you serious????
__________________
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice."
-- Albert Einstein (my hero)
"Those who love the Torah find great peace, and nothing can make them stumble." -Tehillim (psalms) 119:165
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25th June 2008, 05:46 PM
| | Got Torah?
31
| | Join Date: 23rd February 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 7,738
Blessings: 53,346
Reps: 17,445,708,262,428 (power: 17,445,708,277) | | Taken directly from my PM: Talmidah;simchat_torah;ChavaK;Torah613;ShirChadash;insaneinthebrain;HaReb;Talmidah
Dear Members, I closed your threads tonight in the MJ forum in order to avoid any possible RVs discussing staff actions...
*emphasis mine
The most ridiculous thing? These were overwhelmingly threads that were goodbye threads to the community. WE WERE ALREADY GONE!!!
But yeah, talk about over moderation... closing threads because of "possible" or potential violations??? No violation existed in my goodbye thread. You know that point blank. To make up some ridiculous excuse to close the threads, in order to sweep under the rug the fact that you lost a massive exodus of people, is just conniving at best.
__________________
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice."
-- Albert Einstein (my hero)
"Those who love the Torah find great peace, and nothing can make them stumble." -Tehillim (psalms) 119:165
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25th June 2008, 05:51 PM
| | | Originally Posted by simchat_torah No, when I pressed further with admins and mods outside of the MJ forum, they were always at a loss. No one could ever justify the actions taken. But these aren't just actions taken against me personally... notice my post explicitly states actions taken against Jews as a whole. This drove many to quit the forums, and drove Talmidah and ChavaK to quit a few times
Moreover, if you can possibly justify banning someone for 10 days over stating simply "don't look behind the curtain"... then your eye has become outrageously biased.
I know you want to use me as an example, despite my point that this was a general action taken against the overall Jewish community, but fine... let's talk about me. Rarely, if ever, were rules cited. I could have easily taken any one of the warnings to higher admins and had them removed for utterly ridiculous and questionable moderator action. But I never chose to make waves because we could all see the writing on the walls... we were on our way out. Your (yes YOU Tishri) harassment of me using made up violations without citing rules is beyond biased at this point. IN fact, you just removed a handful of threads for "potential violations", despite no violations existing in those threads! You think this is keeping a fair treatment of all members? Are you serious????
Simchat_Torah,
If you have need to talk about these issues then I suggest you take them to RT (Reconciliation Team) because we cannot discuss such issues with you in this setting.
__________________
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Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away.
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25th June 2008, 06:23 PM
|  | pursuing Christ
46
| | Join Date: 12th April 2005 Location: in Christ
Posts: 11,266
Blessings: 1,263,513
Reps: 15,643,562,678,843,674 (power: 15,643,562,678,859) | | i think st has a valid point about the not allowing discussion of staff action rule being taken to overbearing extremes, but i am not sure if that is just in mj or forum wide. i also don't know what can be done about it.
as far as the goodbye threads - some other forums that i belong to simply don't allow goodbye threads like that and they lock them as soon as they start and if the member says they are leaving then they are deleted and prevented from posting further. now the difference is that they are leaving the entire forum, not just a sub forum which is what the mj section is. so, it is different if ya'll are just leaving the mj area i guess.
however, i fail to see a positive purpose for goodbye threads - they just seem like excessive drama to me. 
__________________
"If God leads you to walk a way that you know, it will not benefit you as much as if He would lead you to take the way that you do not know. This forces you to have hundreds and thousands of conversations with Him, resulting in a journey that is an everlasting memorial between you and Him."
Watchman Nee | | |
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