Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
If you use human reasoning to interpret the Bible, you will definitely leave the Christianity.
Everyone uses their brain to interpret the Bible. Don't kid yourself, juvie. The words don't enter your mind via osmosis.
__________________ We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.
Hard physical evidence demonstrates that reality is nonlinear (c squared, r squared etc)
Assuming you mean the c^2 in E = mc^2, that's not nonlinear -- it's a constant. Inverse-square laws are nonlinear, however.
and discontinuous (quantum). However the human mind is not capable of rational nonlinear and discontinuous thought.
This statement makes little sense as it stands. We don't need "rational nonlinear and discontinuous thought" to think about nonlinearity and discontinuity, any more than we need rational green thought to think about frogs. What we need is rational thought about nonlinearity and discontinuity, and that we've already got: it's called physics.
Instead we think sequentially and in a linear straight line (A is followed by B which is followed by C etc). The Theory of Evolution portrays a linear and sequential natural world and is most likely in just another limited human construct and not a accurate representation of the ultimate reality of nature
The theory of evolution is certainly "just" another limited human construct, as are all human models of reality (including theological and philosophical models). It is undoubtedly not a perfectly accurate representation of the reality. (What's ultimate reality, by the way, and how does it differ from any other kind of reality?) That fact has little to do with nonlinearity and almost nothing to do with discontinuity, however. Quantum mechanics tells us that the physical world is discontinuous and also tells us that the discontinuity makes almost no difference to the behaviors relevant to evolution. Continuous descriptions of matter are very, very good approximations to QM for purposes of biology. If you believe QM about discontinuity, you might as well believe it about how unimportant discontinuity is to evolution.
The situation with nonlinearity is a little more complicated, but the bottom line is that evolutionary biology relies very little on linear models in its conclusions. The details are unimportant to the argument, since the argument is nothing but epistemological nihilism dressed up in a scientific-sounding wrapper.
__________________ Giles: "Let's not jump to any conclusions."
Buffy: "I didn't jump. I took one tiny step, and there conclusions were."
Not to mention that when it comes to quantum theory, if you actually look at the mathematics involved, when you get to a macroscopic scale, the quantum behavior is so miniscule that it can be safely ignored in modeling. (And to add what shernren said, the Schroedinger equation, which describes quantum behavior, is actually quite continuous.)
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"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: it is a gift of God. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: he knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us." -Martin Luther
Not to mention that when it comes to quantum theory, if you actually look at the mathematics involved, when you get to a macroscopic scale, the quantum behavior is so miniscule that it can be safely ignored in modeling. (And to add what shernren said, the Schroedinger equation, which describes quantum behavior, is actually quite continuous.)
Originally Posted by sfs
The situation with nonlinearity is a little more complicated, but the bottom line is that evolutionary biology relies very little on linear models in its conclusions. The details are unimportant to the argument, since the argument is nothing but epistemological nihilism dressed up in a scientific-sounding wrapper.
My motivation for writing this post is not to change your minds but to give you something to think about and to test my beliefs in an open forum. Steel sharpens steel as it is written so thanks to you who care and are willing to make the effort to fight for what you think is right.
I am still very much convinced that Evolution is simply an idea in some people’s minds and not the reality of the natural world. It is no coincidence that it parallels Christianity so closely - this was where Darwin stole most of “his” ideas.
Both Evolution and Christianity are about the transformation of one species into another. For Christianity it is the creation of the new man. Darwin’s scenario begins with one member being different at birth. This follows Christianity as Jesus was different – being conceived by the Holy Spirit. In Evolution this “mutation” gives the individual an advantage in survival. Having been raised from the dead proves that Jesus was a survivor. Finally in evolution the member of a species are not like this new individual becomes “extinct”. This too follows the Christianity in that those who do not accept Jesus are lost. Please note that none of these ideas are self evident in the natural world. They are read into Evolution by Darwin’s preconceived ideas.
Even if I am completely wrong - evolution itself points to Jesus as mankind’s savior. We can easily see this by asking the question “from an evolutionary point of view who will transform and “save” mankind?”
If everyone became like Jesus there would be no hunger because he was able to feed people. Neither would be there be sickness, war or death. The same can not be said for Buddha, Mohamed, or Moses or anyone else one can think of. So even from an evolutionary point of view Jesus is the one.
The point is that our minds are incapable of mirroring the real world. The information we take in through our senses and from experience is simplified into a continuous sequential and linear thought form that are built up into world views. In the past history has shown us that these world views have always proven to false. And without a doubt evolution with also fail.
Simply put experience tends to reinforce our prejudices. And this leads us away from the truth. The only way to get in touch with reality is through revelation. Revelation blows us out of the rut that we are in and gets us in touch with what is real. In regard then to evolution my point is that it is an observational and experimental framework built on the foundation of Biblical revelation. As such it is not be trusted or “believed” in
Time will tell whether evolution (or any other scientific theory) fails or not. But the fact remains that it is the best explanation we have of the data right now. And unless some other explanation comes along that can do a better job of explaining the data, we're stuck with what we've got.
__________________ We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.
Which merely begs the question of, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck?
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations") To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in the presence of Him whom he believed--God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
My motivation for writing this post is not to change your minds but to give you something to think about and to test my beliefs in an open forum. Steel sharpens steel as it is written so thanks to you who care and are willing to make the effort to fight for what you think is right.
I am still very much convinced that Evolution is simply an idea in some people’s minds and not the reality of the natural world. It is no coincidence that it parallels Christianity so closely - this was where Darwin stole most of “his” ideas.
Both Evolution and Christianity are about the transformation of one species into another. For Christianity it is the creation of the new man. Darwin’s scenario begins with one member being different at birth. This follows Christianity as Jesus was different – being conceived by the Holy Spirit. In Evolution this “mutation” gives the individual an advantage in survival. Having been raised from the dead proves that Jesus was a survivor. Finally in evolution the member of a species are not like this new individual becomes “extinct”. This too follows the Christianity in that those who do not accept Jesus are lost. Please note that none of these ideas are self evident in the natural world. They are read into Evolution by Darwin’s preconceived ideas.
Even if I am completely wrong - evolution itself points to Jesus as mankind’s savior. We can easily see this by asking the question “from an evolutionary point of view who will transform and “save” mankind?”
If everyone became like Jesus there would be no hunger because he was able to feed people. Neither would be there be sickness, war or death. The same can not be said for Buddha, Mohamed, or Moses or anyone else one can think of. So even from an evolutionary point of view Jesus is the one.
The point is that our minds are incapable of mirroring the real world. The information we take in through our senses and from experience is simplified into a continuous sequential and linear thought form that are built up into world views. In the past history has shown us that these world views have always proven to false. And without a doubt evolution with also fail.
Simply put experience tends to reinforce our prejudices. And this leads us away from the truth. The only way to get in touch with reality is through revelation. Revelation blows us out of the rut that we are in and gets us in touch with what is real. In regard then to evolution my point is that it is an observational and experimental framework built on the foundation of Biblical revelation. As such it is not be trusted or “believed” in
Um...what? Go pick up a biology textbook (preferably at the college level) and read up on evolution. Please. Otherwise it makes you look like you have no clue what you are talking about.
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"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: it is a gift of God. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: he knows how it drives the evil spirit out of us." -Martin Luther
I think Darwin and others pick up their ideas from the culture they lived in -why not?
The only cultural influence that Darwin may have had on his decision to publish his findings was the knowledge that he would not be executed or imprisoned for heresy, unlike other great thinkers during the Dark Ages. The idea of evolution and most of the tenets has been invented by Greek philosophers between the 3rd and 5th centauries BC.
Linear Mode
