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26th May 2008, 08:12 AM
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Reps: 176,363,191,217,860,448 (power: 176,363,191,217,869) | | Originally Posted by didaskalos  For instance, which "god," (or "gods") was speaking when he (they), said:
Deut 4
39: Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Which was speaking here:
Deut:5:
7: Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Which Lord said this:
Deut:6:
4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Which of the three said this:
Isa:43:
11: I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Or here:
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
-Isaiah 44:6
Peace... |
26th May 2008, 01:52 PM
| | | Originally Posted by didaskalos  For instance, which "god," (or "gods") was speaking when he (they), said:
Deut 4
39: Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Which was speaking here:
Deut:5:
7: Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Which Lord said this:
Deut:6:
4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Which of the three said this:
Isa:43:
11: I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Or here:
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
-Isaiah 44:6
Peace... Thank you... that is excellent.
The important thing about these verses is that they are specifically addressing the numeric count value of God. It is the contextual topic of the verse and the statement is clear and not subject to a lot of interpretation. He is telling us how many individuals are present in God, that is the topic He is addressing.
"He is one..."
"I am one...."
"There are no others..."
"I am both the first and the last..."
Mike pointed out the literal Hebrew of Deut 6:4 -
"Well that verse specifically has a lot of meaning behind it... Deut:6:4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH sing.)our God (Elohim pl.) is one LORD (YHVH sing.)"
And I think this is a definitive and accurarte statement of the "oneness in multiple modes" concept. Any interpretation that says that the world "elohim" means "gods" puts Christianity into polytheism. That is the definition of polytheism.
Is is three Gods manifesting as one?
Or is it one God manifesting as three?
I think the second choice is the logical and scriptural choice.
We know and confess that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Not three Gods. I explain it in relatively simple terms:
There is one omnipresent spirit manifesting in time and space. To a person existing in the physical realm, this appears in the form of multiple modes.
The apparent multiplicity is the result of how an eternal, omnipresent, spiritual being manifests His presence into a four dimenional (that includes time as the forth dimension) physical existance.
The three modes of God's being manifest in the world as we see at the baptism of Jesus.
The Spirit of God is always present in all of creation. He is all around us and in all eternity.
The fullness of the Godhead exists in Jesus, where the spirit of God actually resides within a fully human body. This is the same spirit as the Spirit of God. There are not two separate spirits. They are the same. The single infinite spirit of God became localized and focused in the body of a man.
The Father is the single infinite Spirit of God as seen outside of the body of Jesus. He is not a separate spirit so as to be two spirits. It is the same spirit. His spirit remains in the infinite and so can address Jesus existing in the finite physial existance.
You could imagine yourself an infinite being who has the ability to go forward or backward in time and space and meeting yourself. How would you address yourself in the past?
You might say:
"You are me in at different time in physical existance..."
If there were other men present, and you wanted them to hear your testimony, you might say:
"This is my divine presence localized in the body of a man."
If you had divested yourself of your power and divine abilities during the incarnation, you might endow yourself with power and abilites by sending the power of your Spirit upon your "emptied" incarnated self. For the benefit of the men watching, you might put that Spirit into the form of a dove and send it to yourself. This localized presence of your infinte Spirit would receive a specialized title, that of the Holy GHOST. But all these are the same Spirit, differing only in the way they manfest and interact in the four dimensions of our physical time and space.
So IMHO opinion, the multiple identites of God are only an illusion that is created by how the one, singular, Spirit manifests in the four dimensional physical world.  |
26th May 2008, 04:51 PM
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Reps: 112,835,592,240,470,960 (power: 112,835,592,240,483) | | Originally Posted by dkbwarrior Or here:
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
-Isaiah 44:6
Peace...
In this verse two are mentioned... the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts... two persons identifying themselves as one God...
The three persons manifest themselves simultaneously so they are not all the same person but three distinct persons in one Godhead... We see this particularly at Jesus baptism...
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Psa. 3:3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.
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25th July 2009, 05:29 AM
| | Contributor
| | Join Date: 11th October 2005
Posts: 6,518
Blessings: 60,108 My Mood
Reps: 112,835,592,240,470,960 (power: 112,835,592,240,483) | | | The verse I really like is this one...
Gen. 1:26 And God (Elohim-God pl.) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
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Psa. 3:3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.
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13th February 2010, 05:06 PM
|  | Jesus Freak - Yeshua is my Best Friend
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Reps: 131,783,162,153,473,024 (power: 131,783,162,153,477) | | Originally Posted by PreacherMike The verse I really like is this one...
Gen. 1:26 And God (Elohim-God pl.) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
There are more verses that proves Trinity for sure 
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