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  #61  
Old 27th May 2008, 07:13 PM
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That is very true and a very keen observation!

Yes, I believe the term that best describes that phenomena
is "Cultural Christianity" <---link

Kind of like an instant oatmeal packet. "Just add water....."
In this case, keep your life and your thoughts, perspective, beliefs
in tact and "just add jesus." ....er note that's a lower case J.

That is NOT Biblical Christianity.

Click the link above to see the differences between the two.


Originally Posted by Nadiine View Post
Well liberalism runs on deconstruction; they rarely can construct anything using scripture.
They merely try to tear apart what's clearly stated as if that solves their dilemas. But they can't gain support for their claims using it.

I believe they're predominantly just liberals.
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There are very few left here who are actually speaking the Words of the Lord, this prophecy of Amos is coming true right in your very midst. Today if your hear His voice, harden not your heart. Repent and be converted.

Amos 8:11-12
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.


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  #62  
Old 28th May 2008, 07:22 AM
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To the OP:

Many operate under the misconception that every forum on this web site is Christian. Not true. This site has a public forum, and the denominational forums. Anyone is welcome to become a member and post in the public areas. The original purpose as conceived by Erwin, who founded the site, was to give opportunity to witness to those seeking answers, even though they may not be open to knowing those answers come only through Christ.

When we openly profess our faith, we will attract scoffers and naysayers, agnostic and atheists, Wiccans, pagans and "tares" who claim faith but do their utmost, wittingly or unwittingly, to tear it down in others. We have to be aware of those facts when we venture into those public forums on this site. If we are not, we will do more harm to the image of Christ than we will do good.

One item in your OP really gripes me as a believer. Christians have drawn a line in the sand that the Bible does not. We condemn those who engage in homosexual or bisexual practices to hell, where the Bible truly does not condemn them any more strongly than other sin. So what if, in several passages, God calls homosexual practice "an abomination?" He calls all sin an abomination! Rightly so. Your statement that those engaging in such practices cannot "be" Christians is ludicrous. Can we sin and still be Christian? Of course we can. We do! Am I condemned, without possibility of redemption, when I lie? When I curse? When I covet, lust or fail to love my neighbor? Neither are believers who engage in homosexual behavior -- and despite the many members of the body who want to deny that there are those who believe and yet so engage, they are wrong.

We're not judges, we're fruit inspectors. There is a difference between "persistent" and "willful" sin. My professional experience as a Christian counselor tells me that strongholds are nothing more than addictions, and I believe that applies to those who call themselves "gay" as well. Addictions are persistent but not necessarily willful. Persistence indicates a stronghold. Willfulness indicates rebellion. Sometimes it is hard to see in the behavior that there is a difference, but there most assuredly is one.

If we build a wall that forbids entry to those who insist that such an "alternate lifestyle" (as they love to call it) is acceptable, we will never reach them. Unbelievers living in that practice will reject Christ. Believers living there will reject repentance and "the destruction of strongholds, and every lofty thing lifted up against the knowledge of God ... taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ ... " if we insist on drawing that line.

If you want to be responsible for someone rejecting Christ because of your attitude, so be it. I prefer to be loving but insistent on the truth of the Bible in a way that keeps the door open to a dialogue.

As for the un-Christ-like attitudes of the unbelievers, scoffers, Wiccans and pagans on the public forums, what do you expect? That's who they are. Put on your armor and show the love of Christ with temperance and humility, or don't go there at all. Those are the only choices we have if we are going to win others to our Lord and Savior.

Last edited by IisJustMe; 28th May 2008 at 07:32 AM.
  #63  
Old 28th May 2008, 07:40 AM
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I agree w/ your post Iisjust... only this segment I take an issue with:
One item in your OP really gripes me as a believer. Christians have drawn a line in the sand that the Bible does not. We condemn those who engage in homosexual or bisexual practices to hell, where the Bible truly does not condemn them any more strongly than other sin. So what if, in several passages, God calls homosexual practice "an abomination?" He calls all sin an abomination! Rightly so. Your statement that those engaging in such practices cannot "be" Christians is ludicrous. Can we sin and still be Christian? Of course we can. We do! Am I condemned, without possibility of redemption, when I lie? When I curse? When I covet, lust or fail to love my neighbor? Neither are believers who engage in homosexual behavior -- and despite the many members of the body who want to deny that there are those who believe and yet so engage, they are wrong.

We're not judges, we're fruit inspectors. There is a difference between "persistent" and "willful" sin. Addictions are persistent but not necessarily willful. Persistence indicates a stronghold. Willfulness indicates rebellion. Sometimes it is hard to see in the behavior that there is a difference, but there most assuredly is one
K... We aren't JUDGING & CONDEMING anyone - in any sin.

The problem is people coming in who are attacking Christians standing firm in the truth that it IS sin. And I do think this sin is "worse" than many others by degree -
in that sexual sin in scripture is given a little more attention as to the levity of it. And not all sins in the OT warrented a death penalty either.
Homosexuality did...
I don't think all sins are just "equal" in their degree or level of severity; some cause much greater harm. While all sin is equally "sin" and transgressing God's law. In 1 way it's equal, in another it isn't.
Taking a paperclip from work is hardly as serious as a pedophile kidnapping a little girl & molesting her & killing her.

But the truth is, we do NOT condemn or judge 'gays' here, we're forced to witness that it's SIN to people who come to undermine the truth that it isn't sinful and that people can just continue to live that way without repentance. As if there's nothing wrong with it.

At this point, the floodgates to false teachers have been opened up by both Erwin and LeeD - it's no wonder there's so much conflict & division here... a Christian can spot the wolf, but can others?
I think the damage has been done here at CF - and the member numbers show it. There's more false teaching here than truth anymore, I'm concerned for innocent people coming here in need of help or answers or info.
  #64  
Old 28th May 2008, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Nadiine View Post
... not all sins in the OT warrented a death penalty either. Homosexuality did...
So did adultery, murder, and a host of other sins. Homosexual behavior is not alone in bearing that penalty.
Originally Posted by Nadiine View Post
I don't think all sins are just "equal" in their degree or level of severity; some cause much greater harm.
In our plane of existence, on this Earth, that's true. But what matters for eternity is not the degree, but the fact, of sin. If there is just one sin marked in our "book of life" and we do not know Christ, we're condemned. On the other hand, those whose "book" is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ are treated at the Judgment as though sinless, without stain. The thousands of pages of sin that could have been read out loud do not exist. The pages are blank. There is no sin that is not covered, even "being gay."
  #65  
Old 28th May 2008, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by IisJustMe View Post
So did adultery, murder, and a host of other sins. Homosexual behavior is not alone in bearing that penalty.
Yes that's very true. But if they're all the same & equal, why place a death penalty over some & not others? I don't view a just and righteous God attributing a death penalty over "common", insignificant things that most people do... if you get my drift on that.
I just don't view pedophilia or rape in the same league with sneaking a cookie out of a cookie jar when I was asked not to have any - and our judicial systems don't either thank God. They know to give punishments that are befitting the offense (wrong as they may be at times - but that's a whole other thread) lol

In our plane of existence, on this Earth, that's true. But what matters for eternity is not the degree, but the fact, of sin. If there is just one sin marked in our "book of life" and we do not know Christ, we're condemned. On the other hand, those whose "book" is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ are treated at the Judgment as though sinless, without stain. The thousands of pages of sin that could have been read out loud do not exist. The pages are blank. There is no sin that is not covered, even "being gay."
I totally agree about this - but the focus on this thread has been the people who decide it isn't sin in the first place; as if they can live in sexual perversion and still be a Christian.
No repentance or conviction about it whatsoever.

I absolutely think people can be "gay", yet like every other genuine believer, struggle with lust and occassional slip ups into it... but the majority here are brazen in demanding we're bigoted, hatemonger fundys for even daring to say God is against it.
That's the ONLY reason "SIN" is even focused on as it is. IF we had the correct balance of born again believers, the others wouldn't be dominating the threads to make us appear as bullies who gay bash. (nevermind the fact that they Christian bash while they wag their accusatory fingers in your face ignoring the utter hypocrisy they're practicing).

I can gaurantee that IF these wolves didn't dominate the homosexual topics, wonderful dialog could open up and actually BE loving and kind and comfort coul be given.
If we keep silent without opposing these wolves, then they rule the entire area and people aren't helped when false teachers & wolves dominate the area.
Either way, I see little help that can be offered to genuine seekers with the way it's set up now.
I have no doubt in my mind that the actual Christians here ARE loving and kind and nonjudgmental when sincere people come to discuss their issues and problems and seek info....
I've seen it here - over a year ago before Erwin's "vision" came - we had a good amount of born again believers in a gay thread and there was support and love flowing out of them when we had a person that needed support. We were there.

Hate to say it, but I think when the Christians left this place after the ownership/policy changes & site glitches, we got outnumbered by false religions, wolves & apostates..
When leaders stick practicing witches/pagans as Moderators to oversee Christians, you know there's trouble at the top of the chain.
  #66  
Old 28th May 2008, 11:06 AM
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I take issue with that as well, as that is a completely false testimony.
No one is or has been condemning anyone to hell in there that I have ever witnessed. And I am tired of hearing the relative boloney about what about adultery and what about this or that? First of all, there is not a subforum dedicated to adultery on this site is there? Ever wonder why not? Why is there no subforum dedicated to the sin of adultery, but yet there is one dedicated to the sin of homosexuality? Well, der I will tell you why. Because adulterers aren't running around here claiming their sin is not sin, are not claiming it is in fact not sin,
but actually a blessing from God, are also not jamming their sin down the throats of the Church and forcing them to call evil good and good-evil. Just for starters.

I am so tired of those who stay in the "safe zones" of the site condemning the ones who care enough about souls that they are in the battlefield, and accuse them of things they aren't doing because such folks have chosen to incline their ears to false testimony from others who also have not been in the battlefield either and then cast their judgments accordingly when they don't have an earthly clue what they are talking about.

Get in the trenches with us and we'll talk to you after that. And I don't mean dip a toe in, I mean get in with both feet, have your armor of God on and be ready to be hit on all sides.
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There are very few left here who are actually speaking the Words of the Lord, this prophecy of Amos is coming true right in your very midst. Today if your hear His voice, harden not your heart. Repent and be converted.

Amos 8:11-12
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.


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Abraham Lincoln


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  #67  
Old 28th May 2008, 11:12 AM
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That is a false gospel my brother. If we continue to willfully live lifestyles of sin, regardless of whether that is for instance, continuing to be a liar, continuing to practice witchcraft or continuing to live a sexually immoral lifestyle of any kind, we deceive ourselves if we think our names will be found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The Word explicity tells us otherwise. Do I need to show you the Scriptures?


Originally Posted by IisJustMe View Post
So did adultery, murder, and a host of other sins. Homosexual behavior is not alone in bearing that penalty.In our plane of existence, on this Earth, that's true. But what matters for eternity is not the degree, but the fact, of sin. If there is just one sin marked in our "book of life" and we do not know Christ, we're condemned. On the other hand, those whose "book" is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ are treated at the Judgment as though sinless, without stain. The thousands of pages of sin that could have been read out loud do not exist. The pages are blank. There is no sin that is not covered, even "being gay."
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There are very few left here who are actually speaking the Words of the Lord, this prophecy of Amos is coming true right in your very midst. Today if your hear His voice, harden not your heart. Repent and be converted.

Amos 8:11-12
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.


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  #68  
Old 28th May 2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by IamRedeemed View Post
I take issue with that as well, as that is a completely false testimony.
No one is or has been condemning anyone to hell in there that I have ever witnessed. And I am tired of hearing the relative boloney about what about adultery and what about this or that? First of all, there is not a subforum dedicated to adultery on this site is there? Ever wonder why not? Why is there no subforum dedicated to the sin of adultery, but yet there is one dedicated to the sin of homosexuality? Well, der I will tell you why. Because adulterers aren't running around here claiming their sin is not sin, are not claiming it is in fact not sin,
but actually a blessing from God, are also not jamming their sin down the throats of the Church and forcing them to call evil good and good-evil. Just for starters.

I am so tired of those who stay in the "safe zones" of the site condemning the ones who care enough about souls that they are in the battlefield, and accuse them of things they aren't doing because such folks have chosen to incline their ears to false testimony from others who also have not been in the battlefield either and then cast their judgments accordingly when they don't have an earthly clue what they are talking about.

Get in the trenches with us and we'll talk to you after that. And I don't mean dip a toe in, I mean get in with both feet, have your armor of God on and be ready to be hit on all sides.
it's called being outnumbered by apostates, wolves & false teachers -- (which I blame leadership for opening those doors)

I have to agree that until you actually join in the fray of those debate threads, you aren't experiencing it to gather a fair assessment of the situation at CF to be forced to have to actually REACT & post the way that you think we should. It's easy to say "you should", it's another thing to be in the debate & have to apply it literally. Just reading it doesn't do enough imho. Fasten your seatbelts & go to the gay subforum.


I'd LOVE to be able to give encouragement & help to people that have weaknesses with sins (psssssssst. don't we all have that to some extent?)
& better yet, somebody please show me where even 1 honest straggler came in admitting it was sin & they were struggling w/ it so we could lend love & tolerance!!!

We aren't here to string people up & lynch them for committing a sin while we wear our puritan garb & start bonfires out in the fields...
LOL *picturing a perverted version of the movie "Witness" or "The Scarlet Letter"

  #69  
Old 28th May 2008, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by IamRedeemed View Post
That is a false gospel my brother. If we continue to willfully live lifestyles of sin, regardless of whether that is for instance, continuing to be a liar, continuing to practice witchcraft or continuing to live a sexually immoral lifestyle of any kind, we deceive ourselves if we think our names will be found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The Word explicity tells us otherwise. Do I need to show you the Scriptures?
Again, there is a marked difference in "persistence" in sin and "willfully sinning." Persistence is the stronghold, the sin we cannot seem to beat despite our desire to stop going there and repeating the sin, and the confession and repentance afterwards. Addictions, sexual behavior, etc.

Willfully sinning is not caring whether you commit the sin, refusing to acknowledge the sin is in fact sin, refusing to allow Christ to heal. Though many who practice homosexual behavior mouth words similar to this, their guilt, anger and depression speak volumes about their conviction that this is the case. They want to change, but they can't. Willful sin is not a stronghold, it is outright rebellion, and a rebellious spirit does not know God. Strongholds, however, are something every Christian has or has had, to greater or lesser degrees.

No sin is unforgivable, including homosexual behavior. The only sin unforgivable is rejecting Christ. Christians sin inadvertently, they sin with knowledge of their sin, they sin from living in a stronghold. Sometimes they even sin rebelliously. None of these things separates us from God's love, forgiveness and most importantly, from His salvation. Willful sin, however, speaks directly to the state of the heart, most likely saying "This person is not saved." It is difficult to tell the difference among these sinful motivations at times, and that's why it isn't up to us to determine what that motivation is, but is left in the hands of Christ.
  #70  
Old 28th May 2008, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IisJustMe View Post
Again, there is a marked difference in "persistence" in sin and "willfully sinning." Persistence is the stronghold, the sin we cannot seem to beat despite our desire to stop going there and repeating the sin, and the confession and repentance afterwards. Addictions, sexual behavior, etc.

Willfully sinning is not caring whether you commit the sin, refusing to acknowledge the sin is in fact sin, refusing to allow Christ to heal. Though many who practice homosexual behavior mouth words similar to this, their guilt, anger and depression speak volumes about their conviction that this is the case. They want to change, but they can't. Willful sin is not a stronghold, it is outright rebellion, and a rebellious spirit does not know God. Strongholds, however, are something every Christian has or has had, to greater or lesser degrees.

No sin is unforgivable, including homosexual behavior. The only sin unforgivable is rejecting Christ. Christians sin inadvertently, they sin with knowledge of their sin, they sin from living in a stronghold. Sometimes they even sin rebelliously. None of these things separates us from God's love, forgiveness and most importantly, from His salvation. Willful sin, however, speaks directly to the state of the heart, most likely saying "This person is not saved." It is difficult to tell the difference among these sinful motivations at times, and that's why it isn't up to us to determine what that motivation is, but is left in the hands of Christ.
I tend to agree, but let me add here that it's these same "Christians" who also hold the many false doctrines --
from "there is no lake of fire/hell/eternal separation from god", to the Bible is full of errors and we pick and choose which is true, etc.

I don't just base my discernment on what they claim isn't sinful, the horrific doctrine gives it away.
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