Pre/Post Trib Rapture, and the Endtime Countdown?

I have believed that we were in the final part of the end period, for many years now. I am currently reviewing some basic beliefs, considering I may have been wrong in some areas. (?)

So, if you feel that we are in the very end, or near it, how do you know??
(I used to think that Israel becoming a nation was a key event, for example. Now, I cannot accept that the dessert blossoming like a rose, etc etc can be applied to present Israel.)

As for pre trib rapture, I no longer dismiss it as ridiculous. The reason, largely for that, is that it makes sense for Jewish, and gentile people to get saved during the great tribulation.

But the great tribulation is for the saints. The

non-saints have their time in the seven last plagues. When or what do you consider the great tribulation to be.

I believe there will be those that go pre-trib, and then those that go in the middle when the 144,000 minister, then there will be those that are here until the end that the angels have an opportunity to minister to. That is how I see it, but I have not always seen it that way.

Just more doom and gloom the twice mention words “Great tribulation” which simply means great pressure. This is why we are here to change us to purge us, to refine us. We are not going to fly away in some cloud to escape God’s wrath; we are going to be left here for His glory.

So much figurative scriptural language in the Bible is turned into literal religious doom and gloom; the rapture is nothing but an escapist doctrine of fear.

Strong’s NT:2347 thlipsis (thlip'-sis); from NT:2346; pressure (literally or figuratively):

Praise God for His pressure to change us; give me more Lord; give me more

Acts 14:22

(WE) They talked to the disciples to help them. They told them to keep on believing. They said, `We must go through much trouble to get into God's kingdom.'

Acts 14:22 (MSG) 21-22After proclaiming the Message in Derbe and establishing a strong core of disciples, they retraced their steps to Lystra, then Iconium, and then Antioch, putting muscle and sinew in the lives of the disciples, urging them to stick with what they had begun to believe and not quit, making it clear to them that it wouldn't be easy: "Anyone signing up for the kingdom of God has to go through plenty of hard times

Say what??? The tribulation time, in various ways it was called is not subject to opinion. Jesus spoke of it, referring us to Daniel, who also referred to it.



Why try to hide unbelief, with talking as if you knew, or cared, or believed what Jesus and the bible say on the matter? Of course this world has to end, at least man's rule here. That is not something possibly subject in any way whatsoever to your strange whims.


I don't doubt you will have all you desire, and then some. I prefer to cast my burdens on the Lord, let Him take care of it.


So??? That didn't mean the great tribulation. Obviously.


And good times. But that has nothing to do with them having had to go through the great tribulation, that is patently ridiculous.


The great tribulation, as you should know, is a certain time, lasting a certain amount of time, just before the rapture.

That middle bit is a new one to me. How do you dig that up?

Revelations 14

We need to get a clear picture of this 144,000.

Rev 14:1
1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.




These are the same 144,000 we read about in Chapter 7.

• The seal we read about in chapter 7 is the Fathers name on their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.
3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.




You can only be redeemed by the blood of the lamb:

• These were Israelis from the 12 tribes.
• They were granted opportunity to sing with the redeemed we read about in chapter 5, when the redeemed sing before the throne.

Verse 4
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.




The 144,000 were all men and they were unmarried:

• Because they only have 3 ½ years to complete their assignment.

These men were sealed with the name of the Father:

• That means no one will be able to touch them.
• They will be truly untouchable by the antichrist or any evil forces that tries.
• They will be fully protected by God.

They are going to have 3 ½ years of unhindered ministry:

• It would be hard if they had a family.

Verse 4
These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.




In other words:

• They are the first ones to be born again during the tribulation.

Verse 5
5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.




In verses 1-5 we see:

• Once the 144,000 complete their earthly public ministry,
• They are shortly after taken from earth to heaven,
• They are permitted to join our company before the throne of God.
• They picked up where we left off with the soul winning.

Let’s go to Revelation 7:9




Let’s take a look at their converts:

• In only 3 ½ years, 42 months or1260 days.

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues,




This tells me that the 144,000:

• Are going to be preaching the gospel world wide,
• And the masses are going to be saved.

Then it goes on to say they were:
standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"

This would be another rapture or a catching away in the middle of that 7 year period.