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  #1  
Old 1st July 2004, 11:45 PM
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Question What does it mean to be luke-warm?

Please only respond if your a non-denominational Christian. I am posting this topic in the other areas also so as to gather differences between denominations.

------------------------
I'd like to know where we are to draw the line as to what it mean to be luke-warm in our faith. Some people (including me) have used the terms "on fire for the Lord" or "backslider" or cold in my/your faith.

What does it really mean to be luke warm?

It seems like the definition changes depending on who you talk to and when and where they are in their walk. If I talk to someone who is really excited about their faith they might claim I am not on-fire enough. I know this because I have done it to others.

Mr. G.
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  #2  
Old 2nd July 2004, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Good Faith
Please only respond if your a non-denominational Christian. I am posting this topic in the other areas also so as to gather differences between denominations.

------------------------
I'd like to know where we are to draw the line as to what it mean to be luke-warm in our faith. Some people (including me) have used the terms "on fire for the Lord" or "backslider" or cold in my/your faith.

What does it really mean to be luke warm?

It seems like the definition changes depending on who you talk to and when and where they are in their walk. If I talk to someone who is really excited about their faith they might claim I am not on-fire enough. I know this because I have done it to others.

Mr. G.
First I want to commend you for such a frank confession that you had done that to others. Awesome my friend, awesome.

As for your question though, the term is being misapplied. The "lukewarm" reference is to a church, not an individual. It is not possible for a Christian to be lukewarm in their faith. Either they are saved or they are not. There is no in between. I have valleys I have walked through, and I have had times when I ran and hid in caves, but the faith that God gave me never grew cold because even if I am unfaithful, He is always faithful. The faith I have is a gift. And God is not capricious. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. They do not depend on me, but on Him.

Thank God!
Asaph
  #3  
Old 2nd July 2004, 01:58 AM
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I guess that question lies after being saved. What do you do? Do you continue to be on fire for God, or keep diving into temptations...? I don't think being lukewarm should be associated with disappointment or the so-called "backsliding". These two are just the trials you through as you're running the Christian faith.

o_O

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Old 2nd July 2004, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by duh_hikki_zealot
so-called "backsliding".
what do you mean so-called backsliding. Being luke warm is the beginnign of backslidding..........stay on fire for God when you chose to stay home from church for a sporting event or miss a service for a family event it's a good clue that you aren't on fire. Also if you have a chance to witness or talk about God and you shy off it is an excellent clue that you're not on fire...............
  #5  
Old 2nd July 2004, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Asaph
First I want to commend you for such a frank confession that you had done that to others. Awesome my friend, awesome.
Thak you. The Lord has brought me a long way in my walk.

As for your question though, the term is being misapplied. The "lukewarm" reference is to a church, not an individual. It is not possible for a Christian to be lukewarm in their faith. Either they are saved or they are not. There is no in between. I have valleys I have walked through, and I have had times when I ran and hid in caves, but the faith that God gave me never grew cold because even if I am unfaithful, He is always faithful. The faith I have is a gift. And God is not capricious. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. They do not depend on me, but on Him.
That is an excellent point that I failed to see, Rev is directing that comment to a church or community of believers, and not to individuals. Do you think that this could have something to do with the fact that we are all different parts of the body, that we are all given different spiritual gifts. Why do we continue to judge one another based on how God has called each community or even person serve? We are all not preachers, or teachers, some are financial supporters or some prayer warriors. Are we given to right to judge who do not neccesarily have the same external vocal public attitude as ourselves?
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Matt 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 21:17 ... Peter...Feed my sheep
  #6  
Old 2nd July 2004, 01:02 PM
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Revelation 3
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Can an individual be labeled as lukewarm, or does it only apply to the church as a whole? Well, what is the church made up of if not individuals? The problem starts with the individual, and if you have enough individuals together, the whole church has a problem. One of the things about Revelation, as with any Bible prophecy, is that there is always more than one meaning to a passage. So in all likeliness this passage can apply to both individuals and the church.
Another thought is to consider that each of the seven churches represent a church age. Laodicea is the last church age, when the church becomes "lukewarm" at best.
What is a lukewarm person or church like? They are fencesitters. They refuse to take a firm stand on issues the Bible clearly states are wrong. They sit above everyone else on the fence, never helping or joining one side or the other. Good ol' Sunday Christians who never bother to dirty their hands or give of their hearts. God says he will vomit (spue is to vomit) them out of His holy mouth. They are the people raised in the church, been going to church all their lives, and have no idea who God is or what the Bible really says. They are usually prudes, acting so pious but with little inner faith. They are content in their mediocrity, never rising higher. We are commanded over and over to persevere in the faith and to study the Word.

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2 Timothy 2
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


What happens to hot water if it's let sitting in the open air with no heat source? It grows lukewarm, and then it eventually becomes cold. That is what happens to the lukewarm. They slowly become colder and colder. They are like the seed that fell on rocky ground - they grew fast but soon withered away.
As a church, lukewarm churches are complacent and passive. They pick and choose the scriptures they like and forget about the rest. "God is only love" churches are lukewarm. Such churches refuse to acknowledge that God has rules and not all will be saved.

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Lord Jesus, more perfect and pure than the best of mankind, had to go through trials, temptation, pain, and death. Do you really think His followers will be required of any less? You are either committed fully to Christ, or you are not. The lukewarm ones will not be accepted.
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  #7  
Old 2nd July 2004, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Good Faith
Thak you. The Lord has brought me a long way in my walk.


That is an excellent point that I failed to see, Rev is directing that comment to a church or community of believers, and not to individuals. Do you think that this could have something to do with the fact that we are all different parts of the body, that we are all given different spiritual gifts. Why do we continue to judge one another based on how God has called each community or even person serve? We are all not preachers, or teachers, some are financial supporters or some prayer warriors. Are we given to right to judge who do not neccesarily have the same external vocal public attitude as ourselves?
Well, firstly I must say that nobody has ever accused me of being lukewarm! All I ever get is "calm down, calm down!".....
I've spent quite a bit of time in apologetic areas and it has made me a bit hard edged and confrontational. God is daily busting me on this and is working His will in me, my sanctification. This forum has been a great help in this area lately, even if I do blow it here and there.
In answer to your basic question though, we are called to judge nobody, but I think we are called to judge doctrine. All Christians, where ever they may be, are part of the same body and we are called to care for one another, but to sit idly by while my brother is being injured by heretical doctrine would not be loving my brother. So, how are we to confront the doctrine without further injury to our brother? A genuine love for the person the way God loves them. Sounds simple, but is not always so easy to do.
So I confess and repent where I've blown it and allow God to forgive me.
This has sort of gotten off your original topic, but I wanted to respond to your question about judging people.

Grace and Peace,
Asaph
  #8  
Old 2nd July 2004, 04:32 PM
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The pastor at my church made a good point on the story of the churches and the two streams that are involved. Being cold or hot is not the point, because both are useful. To be hot is good because you can use that water to wash and soak your body and clothes.(just to name a few). And to be cold, it's good to drink, refreshing, quench one's thirst.

But to be luke-warm you are good for nothing. It's not hot enough to wash in and WHO wants to drink luke warm water.
I think this is the point the LORD is making, make yourself ready to be used for the kingdom... don't be without use for He will spit you out!

Did I make any sense? If only one understands it was worth it

Grace and Peace to you.
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Old 2nd July 2004, 04:56 PM
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Luke warm is good for nothing. If I'm hot, I want a cold cup of water, and if I'm cold, I want a hot cup of coffee. Warm water will not do anything. You will notice that only the lukewarm is spit out, so to be hot or cold is good. It's an idiom.

Oh, like what's said right above me...
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  #10  
Old 2nd July 2004, 05:10 PM
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Luke warm and watered down - hmmm, I have been called that MANY times b/c I adhere to God and the Holy Spirit and when what I said or did went against the strict doctrines that other's are used to - I was called names etc. But, so was Jesus.
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