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  #51  
Old 21st December 2008, 04:15 PM
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well, forgive me for skipping over all the replies, but i just wanted to put my two cents in on the OP, hopefully i wont just be repeating what others have already stated.

my opinion is that this group is well, false. there is a practice known as "reading between the lines" that should make it obvious that what this group promotes is wrong. and also, something not said in the bible is not necessarily legal. it's like saying that we can get high at marajuana because it is never specifically mentioned in the Bible.
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  #52  
Old 22nd December 2008, 04:07 AM
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As far as "swingers" go...I am not so sure it's a "sin". If two people married or whatever want to participate in sexual "sex parties" or orgies or whatever together...that is not adultery in my view. They both consented and enjoyed so who gets hurt..no one! As far the whole std thing...use condoms and be somewhat selective in your partners and stay away form dirty needles and your chances or getting HIV is very very very very low. Other std's are a differnt story. The good news is you get a vaccination for the most dangerous varrities of HPV (Human Papaloma Virus) and Chlymidia and Syphilis is currable with antibiotics. As far as Herpes (HSV 2) virus, I understand it can be an very unpleasent thing but not deadly and can be treated with medication. Also there will likely be a cure for HIV through the use of embryonic stem cell research in the not to distant future. So std's while serious are not a good reason to just give up sex..lol Be smart, be wise, be safe, and use good sense and 99.999% of the time you will be ok.

I am amazed at how some people try to use std's to somehow justify there views on abstence. Safe sex, getting vaccinated for HPV and HepB, and using a little common sense is what we should be supporting.

Max
  #53  
Old 22nd December 2008, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by max1120 View Post
As far as "swingers" go...I am not so sure it's a "sin". If two people married or whatever want to participate in sexual "sex parties" or orgies or whatever together...that is not adultery in my view. They both consented and enjoyed so who gets hurt..no one! As far the whole std thing...use condoms and be somewhat selective in your partners and stay away form dirty needles and your chances or getting HIV is very very very very low. Other std's are a differnt story. The good news is you get a vaccination for the most dangerous varrities of HPV (Human Papaloma Virus) and Chlymidia and Syphilis is currable with antibiotics. As far as Herpes (HSV 2) virus, I understand it can be an very unpleasent thing but not deadly and can be treated with medication. Also there will likely be a cure for HIV through the use of embryonic stem cell research in the not to distant future. So std's while serious are not a good reason to just give up sex..lol Be smart, be wise, be safe, and use good sense and 99.999% of the time you will be ok.

I am amazed at how some people try to use std's to somehow justify there views on abstence. Safe sex, getting vaccinated for HPV and HepB, and using a little common sense is what we should be supporting.

Max
if we are supposed to protect our bodies and keep them a temple for God then anything that causes any kind of damage to them is a sin. this includes things that have a "very very very very low" chance of causing damage, because those things nonetheless have a chance of being unhealthy and therefore the act causing them is wrong. also, the Bible talks against all kinds of sexual immorality, this will almost certainly include any kind of orgy or other sexual act that this group promotes. consent isn't an issue here, we don't sin against eachother as we do against God. we don't have the authority to say: "oh, sure you can go ahead and do this sin and i won't count it as such" and expect that action to no longer be a sin. God defines sin, not us, and we can't change His ruling
  #54  
Old 24th December 2008, 10:49 PM
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  #55  
Old 25th December 2008, 12:42 AM
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If a man slept with a married woman, in the time of Moses, the Law stated that both of them were to be stoned to death. I'd say that is proof that God is against swinging.

The issue of consent does not even come into play.
  #56  
Old 25th December 2008, 04:30 AM
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Wife swapping, masturbation, homosexuality, serial monogamy, mixed families, a black President - the world, some would have us believe, is going to hell in a hand basket.

Personally, as long as the participants are not indulging is some form of psychological, emotional or physical abuse, I see no problem. Better that than bombing, killing and raping.
  #57  
Old 25th December 2008, 04:51 AM
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21For even though they knew God, they did not [c]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became (AO)futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22(AP)Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23and (AQ)exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [d]crawling creatures.
24Therefore (AR)God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.
25For they exchanged the truth of God for a (AT)lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, (AU)who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this reason (AV)God gave them over to (AW)degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, (AX)men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, (AY)God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are (AZ)gossips,
30slanderers, (BA)haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, (BB)disobedient to parents,
31without understanding, untrustworthy, (BC)unloving, unmerciful;
32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of (BD)death, they not only do the same, but also (BE)give hearty approval to those who practice them.
  #58  
Old 25th December 2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by NaLuvena View Post
If a man slept with a married woman, in the time of Moses, the Law stated that both of them were to be stoned to death. I'd say that is proof that God is against swinging.

The issue of consent does not even come into play.
The issue of consent absolutely DOES come into play because the wife was the man's PROPERTY. There is no coveting or stealing if consent is involved. Ever wonder why adultery is a sin? What was the point of the 10 commandments? Every law given to men from God can be tested against the 10 commandments to understand how/why it is a sin. Adultery does not involve consent...and always involves first coveting your neighbor's property (i.e. wife) and next stealing (taking without consent of the owner) that property. Ultimately, of course, love is the fullfilment of the law (see the NT). So, if love is first in our decision-making and nobody is being harmed...there is NO sin.

You don't have to accept it. Romans 14 speaks about the difference between those who can and can not accept it. I hope I have not hurt you faith by saying this...for it was/is not my intention.

Hugs All!
chingchang
  #59  
Old 25th December 2008, 07:39 PM
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In response to the poster who used the example of a women escaping an abusive husband for a better one, one must remember that Go ddoes not give permission to people to sin. Plus people are NOT to use sin to escape sin; they are to use God's ways.

God has given people a way to escape but they must be true to Him and not use such an escape as justification for their actions.

in my view.
doesn't matter what your 'view' is, you are not the final judge, you will not be sitting in place of God at the final judgment and you do not over-rule God.

God's kingdom-God's rules not yours. if any people claim to be christian and hold to views contrary to the Bible, then check the source for God will NOT give opinions or views contrary to His word and rules.

as for christian swingers--- they are just looking to excuse or justify their folowing their sinful desires. one cannot look at the action of sarah or other women on a surface and limited scale but must look at all the factors involved. Yes sarah was doing a cultural practice BUT guess what--ishmael was NOT part of God's promise to abraham nor was he the son abraham was to expect...there is more but it will have to wait for another time.

swinging, whether christian or secular, is against God's rules, laws, commands (whichever word you want to use there) thus IT IS SIN. God determines what sin is and man CANNOT make any changes to that declaration.

IT DOES NOT matter if the people are 'consenting' or not, there is NO teaching from any biblical writer, apostle or Jesus which states that 'consent' changes sin to not sin.
  #60  
Old 26th December 2008, 06:00 AM
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I'm reminded of that passage somewhere that says something to the effect that whosoever looks at another in that certain way has already committed adultery. Hands up those who can plead innocent to this charge.
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