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Christian Apologetics A forum to discuss the systematic defense of the Christian belief system with other Christians.

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  #21  
Unread 26th August 2004, 09:59 AM
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Jesus said that there will be many who call themselves Christians but as Rev Wayne said, are not. The churches are full of them. Jesus also gave us a parable about the old woman who kept bugging the judge until the judge finally gave in. Those who claim to be Christian, in my opinion, are fair game to conversations about Christianity. My husband's family also claim to be Christian. I know that 2 of his sisters are born again but his brother who is an active church-goer is not. We pray about it and let the Holy Spirit guide us in whether or not to converse with them about Christianity. So far, He has not shown us that we should not. Jesus did say that he came, not tobring peace but to turn father against son, mother against daughter, etc. This does not mean that our motives should be to cause conflict but that simply some will be chosen out of a family and others will not regardless of who goes to church. The very fact that you are born again alone, will cause division. It takes discernment on whether or not to openly talk about it.
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  #22  
Unread 28th August 2004, 06:51 AM
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Yes I have family in law that is that way. Everytime I go over to my in laws I let them know I love them or i will plant a seed of scripture. Or sing praise songs in their presence or talk to my wife about an experience i had in the Lord.

Now one of my wife's sisters came to the Lord. Goes to church with us regularly, is filled with the holy ghost so now we got 2 peope working on it.

keep praying for them and keep planting the seed and watering. you may be marrried and out of the hose when it happens but keep up the good fight

Lord Bless
Raygn
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  #23  
Unread 28th August 2004, 09:23 AM
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are fair game
Evangelism isn't a hunt for wild game, you know. It's not a competition. You don't have to win all the time. Preach the Gospel everyday. Sometimes you might even be able to use words, if your life is a good example of the love of God.
  #24  
Unread 20th November 2004, 05:42 PM
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We live in a post-modern world, where people base their lives on "I feel, therefore I am" . Christians who live post-modernity find it the hardest to accept, deny and get out of this mentality. Jesus said, "you are in the world but not of it!" - or something like that.

Back in the days of our parents, and their parents the truth was told thru word of mouth. Now we as Christians must witness thru our life-style. Jesus knew this would be the case and John came to the grasps of it in 1 John 2:6 (those who claim to live in Him, must live as Jesus did!)

(META-PARABLE = BIG STORY = TRUTH)
- post-modernity is not a meta-parable.*
How does post-modernity effect the church?
in 3 ways:

(1)
Effect: - Pick'n'Mix
Problem : - Enthusiastic Dualism (mind and matter = i feel, therefore i am; *TRUTH = it's 'my story' it's what/who i want to be)
Answer : - small groups-Q's of a small group = what is the truth?-application?-who needs help? - participation, many voices; explanation; power of the peer - quote: Judith Harris "You are styled by your culture/peers!"; reintroducing the conconscience.

(2)
Effect: - Consumerism
Problem: - entertainment - entertaining the crowds, hyping them up; benefits - riches, healing, grace; non-relational - big crowd speaking; entertainment+benfits=reciepe for disaster.
Answer: - 2 Cor 5:15; surrender; empower/challenge; relational.
  • one thing is to have the answer and another thing to tell the answer in the right way.
  • we are preaching the truth to a post-moderni culture in a modern language/way.
  • we can only do something if you have not been impacted by post-modernity.
(3)
Effect: - paganism - less belief, less values and just actions
Problem: - no longer christian values
Answer: - to teach values

What does it mean to truely repent? -to change ones mind, change their belief and values ~ will - Rom 12:1-2
we need to focus on internal discipleship thru external discipleship by reinforcing values with the rules and peers.

4 IMPERATIVE VALUES

1 Peter 4:7-11
  1. PRAYER: high value of God
  2. LOVE: sacrificial love
  3. HOSPITALITY: high view of others
  4. GIFTS: high view of self
1 - HIGH VALUE OF GOD: He is our Holy Friend - God is Holy, He is incredible, deserves all honour and worship, He is also our Friend, someone we can pour our hearts out to, someone we can tell our innermost secrets, someone we can cry with, laugh with, and at the same time someone who deserves our reverence.

2 - SACRIFICIAL LOVE:
You'll find God as our friend in 'the Sprit', in 'the Word', and in 'the Body'.
sacrifice releases the power of God!
  • if you are a leader, you are in charge of loving. whether you want to or not, you are in charge of loving.
  • sacrificial love is a choice, not a feeling!
  • for the body of Christ to work, it is all about love, sacrificial love.
3 - HIGH VIEW OF OTHERS: how do you see others? it's how you value people. to love is to listen, people need to have a sense that they are valued! how do you see lost people? how do you see your husband/wife/gf/bf? do you really value people?
ask open-ended questions, it communicates value!!!
in marriage, keep dysfunctions to a minimum, talk about them, be real, be honest, when problems arise, your dysfunctions will not get in the way....dysfunctions+problems=disaster!

4 - HIGH VIEW OF SELF: God's love makes us valueable. having a high value of yourself is Biblical....not thinking 'up yourself' or boosting your ego...for God will humble the proud (don't be afraid of pride) but don't let that hold you back! If God has put a desire/gift in your heart, get out and use it!!! sometimes we need to fail to be a success.
3 dynamics to change: honesty, habit patterns to be broken, hard work to be done for new habit patterns.

This is all the notes that I got from a speaker that spoke to us on "The Effects of Post-modernity" the more I read over them the more they make sense. With the help of God that is.

To those who find there are many Christians who don't walk the Christian walk, the reasons for this is obvious, they are effected by a post-modern culture....even tho it may seem impossible to reach them, it is possible!!!

well i hope this put somethings in perspective, and if you are confused, ask God who is not the god of confusion to speak to you while you read it again, for more of His truth in our lives.

God bless
Paddy
  #25  
Unread 20th November 2004, 06:28 PM
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'Heaven is our Home and life is just a Journey Home' but for goodness sake get as many people on the bus with as possible!!! living for christ and sharing his love and word is the most awesome thing in the world, as for 'christains who say we shouldn't force religion havent grasped how fantastic salvation is and that they have a metaphoric cure for matephoric cancer!!!!
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ITS ALL ABOUT COMMUNITY PEOPLE!!!!
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  #26  
Unread 20th November 2004, 08:22 PM
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Starstreak, I've read all of your posts here but also decided to check out your profile; it mentioned that you accepted Christ ~3 yrs ago...considering that, I propose that it could, perhaps, be your zeal for Christ that is *too much* for your family to accept. I know that when I was born again, I was so excited, I ended up talking to any and everyone I could talk to about God....I got everything from arched eyebrows to 'oookay, perhaps you should become a nun' to 'okay, you can shut up now'-looks...but, I realize that that kind of zeal can only go so far...and that it is not for me to decide where ppl are in their walk with Christ, if at all, without seeing their hearts~God does that, we don't. Even though, yeah, by the fruits we shall know them, it is not for us to go on passing judgment. Best we can do is *lead* by example & offer up as many prayers as we can for them. B/c someday, they will not only understand why we are so enthousiastic to talk about God but, most importantly, they'll also understand what having a fuller relationship with Him is like.
  #27  
Unread 23rd November 2004, 12:52 PM
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anyone encountered this?

Does anyone every encounter the type of person, with whom a conversation goes like this...

Me: Do you believe in God.

Him: Yes, I do.

Me: Why do you engage in so many things that you know are wrong, from a religious standpoint?

Him: Because everyone sins, and me doing one extra sin, which increases my life's pleasure so much, is worth it, and doesn't really affect me all that much because everyone sins. Its all about cost vs reward. In fact, you even do the same sin on occaision.

Me: Yes but I try not to, as much as I can.

Him: You still do, and so do so many other people who are Christians, so I am going to keep doing it....

What can I say to this person? He is correct; try as I might, I still get sucked into sin occaisionally. The difference is that he, on purpose and after fully rationalizing the situation out, still willingly chooses to engage in this sinful type of behaviour. Even after explaining this all to me, he claims that he believes in God. Ive told him that believing in God is much different than having faith and trust in God.

I'm stumped in what to do next.

Greg
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  #28  
Unread 23rd November 2004, 03:13 PM
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Hey Greg,

I've had many times when people are stuck in sin and don't seem to do anything about it. My advice is always GO BACK to the word of God. It becomes something that they have to deal with God on.

Jam 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

There are tons of other verses in James that talk about works in relationship to faith. Also, something we just covered in my Christian Living class today is the book of Titus. It talks a lot about our good deeds as Christians. Something to look into at least.


Goind back to the nature of this topic. My parents relationship has been on the rocks for the last 3 years now. Both of them are claiming to be such great Christians. They both go to church and seperately they both can talk such a great talk. Yet my dad has moved out of the house once and talked about it 3 or 4 other times. They've mentioned divorce probably 2 or 3 times as well. Here's the worst part, my dad was once a Pastor of a church. He's currently a chaplain in a state prison. He preaches at least once a month filling in for pastors at local churches. At different times I've approached both of them on the word of God and they don't seem to listen.

The biggest thing you can do first off is pray. The more it seems I pray for my family, the better things get. I still trust that the Holy Spirit will do the work he wants to do in each of their lives. Along with that, I try to share the Word with them. Sometimes, I share things directly telling them chapter and verse, sometimes I just explain to them the godly principle behind a verse. As with many people, the second is a good way to get people started in a conversation.
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then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently. - Exodus 21:6 (NASB)
  #29  
Unread 23rd November 2004, 04:05 PM
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just becoz someone believes in God, doesn't make them a Christian....

if they say they are a Christian, read
1 John 1:5-6
5This is the message he has given us to announce to you: God is light and there is no darkness in him at all. 6So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness. We are not living in the truth.
1 John 2:1-6
1 My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if you do sin, there is someone to plead for you before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who pleases God completely.[1] 2He is the sacrifice for our sins. He takes away not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
3And how can we be sure that we belong to him? By obeying his commandments. 4If someone says, "I belong to God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and does not live in the truth. 5But those who obey God's word really do love him. That is the way to know whether or not we live in him. 6Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Christ did.
Romans 6:15-16
15So since God's grace has set us free from the law, does this mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! 16Don't you realize that whatever you choose to obey becomes your master? You can choose sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God and receive his approval.
1 John 3:7-9
7Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it is because they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8But when people wilfully keep on sinning, it shows they belong to the Devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy these works of the Devil. 9Those who have been born into God's family do not sin, because God's life is in them. So they can't wilfully keep on sinning, because they have been born of God.

hope this helps some

paddy
  #30  
Unread 23rd November 2004, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bokhard
Does anyone every encounter the type of person, with whom a conversation goes like this...

I've had numerous conversations with ppl who consider themselves to be 'christian' when they do not even believe in Jesus Christ. I'd say your friend definately has a more open-ended theistic belief but is obviously not convicted enough to stop the sinning he is involving himself in. Great job in mentioning Titus, H.
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