do you mean since i'm not a cradle Catholic? hmmm, not particularly. i mean sometimes i think THEy'RE the ones who've got it figured out because it's been ingrained in them since birth adn somehow i have to catch up but most times i think it's my Protestant background that helps me understand certain things better. like i've seen both sides, know what i mean? but the fact that noone whether they're a convert or a cradle Catholic can explain certain things to me in order for me to "get it" makes me question all the more.
i completely believe that no one faith has got it all 100% right and maybe i'm just being too anal about stuff.
The bolded part was what I was asking about, and if you don't feel that way too often, that's good. From my personal experience, converts know the religion more thoroughly than cradle Catholics, as the latter were born and raised in it, were often confirmed before they thought seriously about those huge topics, and know that pretty much whatever happens, they're still Catholic.
Wish I had advice for you other than "do your best." Dealing with a judgmental parish sounds miserable, though. It's not possible to ignore them and know you're doing your best? That's all they can be doing, too.
__________________
"You certainly don't want to go walking through a field of disoriented, agitated and wet honey bees."
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i just don't understand why some think that if you just don't blindly accept what the Church teaches , that somehow makes you less of a Catholic. i mean, becoming Catholic didn't stop my ability to think and reason for myself.
Because those type individuals are either sanctimonious or control freaks. The Church herself teaches that there is no conflict between faith and reason. This means its perfectly reasonable to want answers and to find them through reason. I am the same way but I have always been able to dispell my doubts with the facts. One just has to learn to find the answers they seek. There is only one truth.
when i converted i honestly felt that i could accept everything. i meant what i said when i went thru confirmation about believing it all. so why upon more study do i feel this way? i don't know. i've tried to get help. it just doesn't seem to work and where i live Catholics are the minority so it's not as easy as findiong a new parish.
Spiritual appatites change I think. It's easy to become reluctant to go to confession. Remember the precepts and obligations of the Church. For confession thats only annual. But really that is the start and way back I think.
i love my priest and if it were just me and my priest i'd probab;y have zero issues going back to Mass. shoot, even HE said take baby steps till i felt more comfortable coming back fulltime and that God knows my heart and knows i'm trying. why do the members of the Church have to make you feel second class?
I think its because allot have the same problem but are less honest about it. They feel second class themselves for some reason so it builds them up to belittle others. Personally I ignore it because its their problem that they don't understand the Mercy of God. They aren't God Lol. If you would ever like to go over some issues that may be troubling you piece by piece I have been doing so for myself for quite some time and may be of some help and it would be my pleasure either here or in PM.
Peace.
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"
"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"
Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."
"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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Because those type individuals are either sanctimonious or control freaks. The Church herself teaches that there is no conflict between faith and reason. This means its perfectly reasonable to want answers and to find them through reason. I am the same way but I have always been able to dispell my doubts with the facts. One just has to learn to find the answers they seek. There is only one truth.
heh, if you could tell me where to find those answers i'd be most appreciative. seriously bc this really eats at me. i AM reading things, trying to figure it out but i'm extremely put out that my sponsor just completely bailed on me once i converted.
Spiritual appatites change I think. It's easy to become reluctant to go to confession. Remember the precepts and obligations of the Church. For confession thats only annual. But really that is the start and way back I think.
i don't really have issues with confession. actually i find it very uplifting. of course i think alot of that is because of my priest.
I think its because allot have the same problem but are less honest about it. They feel second class themselves for some reason so it builds them up to belittle others. Personally I ignore it because its their problem that they don't understand the Mercy of God. They aren't God Lol. If you would ever like to go over some issues that may be troubling you piece by piece I have been doing so for myself for quite some time and may be of some help and it would be my pleasure either here or in PM.
Peace.
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thanks, i really appreciate that. i don't have a problem with doing it here or in pm whichever you prefer. maybe here would help some other people but if it got kind of specific and personal i'd rather go to pm know what i mean?
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LIBERAL is not a dirty word.
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I choose~therefore I am.
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Proverbs 18:2
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heh, if you could tell me where to find those answers i'd be most appreciative. seriously bc this really eats at me. i AM reading things, trying to figure it out but i'm extremely put out that my sponsor just completely bailed on me once i converted.
Yea, well were all family.
i don't really have issues with confession. actually i find it very uplifting. of course i think alot of that is because of my priest.
I have never met a priest I didn't like something about. Have you ever asked him if he did spiritual direction and would meet with you once a month for an hour. This talking things out I have found very helpful personally.
thanks, i really appreciate that. i don't have a problem with doing it here or in pm whichever you prefer. maybe here would help some other people but if it got kind of specific and personal i'd rather go to pm know what i mean?
Yea, that and the flack from other posters getting heated could be more of the same. Your call.
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"
"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"
Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."
"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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i mean, i can't imagine going back to being Protestant. ever.
but, i haven't been to Mass in ...forever...at least a year anyway. i mean it started back when both my husband and i both lost our jobs and our family was really struggling. even though things are way better now it just got really hard to make myself go back after being gone for so long.
i still pray every day, i still believe but i struggle so much with certain aspects of the faith that i don't even know if i should bother calling myself Catholic anymore.. any help?
I ahve been exactly where you are at, I know how you feel and what you went through. I didn't struggle with the teachings but I did get to where I just couldn't do it, go to Mass.
it's hard to have the energy to hope and be positive and even when things get better, you got into such a rut of not going to Mass it's hard to get back on the horse.
I would say it's as easy as just going to confession and beginning again.
It's hard to make the first move but when you do, you'll be glad.
The spiritual life Kim, is very high maintenance. We struggle with stuff and we are weak and it's just so much easier to just lie down on the job than it is to hang in there and exercise our faith hope and love. Faith hope and love are like muscles.. when we have to exercise them or we will go soft.
But there's also rewards... I know when I'm walking the walk... it do feel better and can be a better person, I can try to even strive for holiness.
When I'm down and feeling like I just donlt have the strength to get back in there, I feel really crummy, and how I treat ppl reflect that.
allright let me start at the moment when things started to go downhill.
like i said both my husband and i had lost our jobs within a couple months of each other. we were seriously struggling to make ends meet living on what little unemployment paid. gas had started to skyrocket so i had to budget my money harder. i could either have money for gas to go look for a job or money for gas to go to Mass. i needed the job more was all i could come up with.
so i stopped going to Mass. was angry at God for the "why now? why me??" thing. i was already upset that my sponsor had bailed on me. and not just that but lied to me bc he's a dr. where i used to work and we ran into each other constantly and he'd always say he was going to send me something to read that would help me some or would call me and we'd talk but he never followed thru. ever.
so in the meantime i'm questioning in a huge way the whole "go to Mass or go to hell" thing because i KNEW that this was a circumstance that God would understand but it made me question alot more and say that things WERE better and i could go to Mass regularly, if i was just wore out from overtime at work and didn't go, how did that end up meaning if i croaked the next day that i'd be hellbound? that is something i've yet to be able to move past.
i want proof. i want someone to show me in writing that this was a "law" or "rule" back in the day. i mean WAAAY back in the day. i realize it says in the Bible that we';re to gather and worship. i KNOW that. but it doesn't say we HAVE to or we're hellbound.
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LIBERAL is not a dirty word.
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I choose~therefore I am.
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Proverbs 18:2
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i want proof. i want someone to show me in writing that this was a "law" or "rule" back in the day. i mean WAAAY back in the day. i realize it says in the Bible that we';re to gather and worship. i KNOW that. but it doesn't say we HAVE to or we're hellbound.
I looked this up for you:
Certainly the Second Commandment obliges that we keep holy the Lord’s day. In the Old Law this mean the Sabbath, Saturday. With the New Covenant, established by Christ’s passion and death, Christians celebrated Sunday as the day of the Resurrection.
The Old Catholic Encyclopedia states that during the first three centuries both practice and tradition consecrated Sunday to the public worship of God by attending Mass and resting from work. With the opening of the fourth century positive legislation, both ecclesiastical and civil, began to make these duries more definite. For more, see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm.
It is clear from Acts 2:42 that the earliest Christians called the Eucharistic celebration (i.e. Mass) the breaking of bread: “they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers”. Later we are told when they did this: “On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread…” (Acts 20:7). The first day of the week was (and still is) Sunday.
and
The Sunday obligation is only fulfilled on Sunday or on the Saturday afternoon or evening before. However, if you are honestly unable for just cause to attend church after noon on Saturday or on Sunday, you are dispensed from the Sunday obligation. So, no, you cannot fulfill your Sunday obligation on Monday; but if your job prevents you from attending Mass after noon on Saturday or on Sunday, you are dispensed from the obligation.
So as you can see from the second quote, the Sunday obligation is dispensed for good reason. If at first the reason was good and then fell into neglect all one needs to do to return is realize the neglect, confess any mortal sins they feel they have and start going again.
I also found the following that may interest you:
APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI
OF THE HOLY FATHER
JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY AND FAITHFUL
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON KEEPING THE LORD'S DAY HOLY
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"
"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"
Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."
"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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woah, lots to read. thanks and i'll get back with you
__________________
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LIBERAL is not a dirty word.
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I choose~therefore I am.
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Proverbs 18:2
When the power of love To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
woah, lots to read. thanks and i'll get back with you
Take all the time you need. I'm just heading out the door for a while anyway. May the Holy Spirit guide you.
Peace sister.
__________________
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"
"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"
Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."
"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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well i'm kind of like you in that i don't really have too much issue with female priests but i can live with things the way they are. i struggle with the stance on birth control although i'm personally not on it nor am i condoning abortion, but i just think it's not the Church's business to tell me what to do in my sex life. i really struggle with how homosexuals are treated and how they're treated as if they're diseased or something. i think my biggest struggle though is the teaching that if you don't go to Mass every Sunday and you don't repent of it that you'll go to hell. i can't grasp that. i cannot accept it and it makes me resentful.
Canon Law can be quite heavy-handed at times. It may just be best for you to ignore it and do what is best for you and your relationship with God. You may end up doing most of what Canon Law says that you have to do anyway, but if you do it because you see it as good rather than out of obligation, you will probably benefit from it more. You may also end up doing something else that is also better than doing it out of obligation.
THAT right there hit the nail on the head. although i realize that 'real-life' Catholics are not like the ones i've encountered online but i have met a few from my parish that know the exact way to implement the good old Catholic guilt on you.
i don't know if they're too great to overcome or not. that's the problem. i just don't see any light at the end of my tunnel. i've been dealing with this now for the last year and you'd think it'd get easier but if anything it's becoming harder.
The right parish is priceless. Here is a list of gay friendly parishes. They are probably less likely to use the good old Catholic guilt.
i've thought of maybe going Episcopalian but everytime i give it real considered thought, i struggle with the notion that if i could turn so easily from something that once meant so much to me, how can that be the TRUTH? and if it's not the TRUTH then what do i even believe in and where does that leave me?
The truth is not finite. Nothing short of God can grasp all of it. While we believe that Catholicism is the fullest expression of the truth, this does not imply that other churches lack any truth.
It is also good to remember that where one goes to church isn't just about determining which one has the truest doctrines. It is also about which one can best minister to your spirit and best aid you in your service with God. While I hope that everyone can find this in a Catholic parish, I realize that for many people this is not true at this time.
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